Uncle Arthur and all our yesterdays.

[ramblur]

This thread hasn't had enough attention, thanks for sharing @ramblur!

We have too many sticky threads to do it but I'd love to have a thread with little odd bits of our history in it, and by little odd tidbits, I mean stuff before the Clough era. It's great that we had such a successful period in the 1970s but it means there's almost a century's worth of history before it which is largely ignored.

I've always wondered what the club keeps archived? There must be a fair bit, or else how would they keep track of records? Is there someone at the club who has access to all the information and records? Can imagine a lot of it went missing in the turbulent times of the late 70s/early-mid 80s.

Probably all stored at a former club house in Hillsway,LOL.

If you were really interested in the club's history,you could do worse than contact the club's secretary to see if there are any records available to the public.Thankfully,the stuff I dug out is lodged at CH and should therefore always be available to the public,but unfortunately there is then a big gap in records until a reregistration document landed in 1982,dealing with the change from private to public limited company.I initially thought this was the George Hardy era,but I've a feeling this may have been Mike Watterson's (the snooker guy) brainwave.Although I appreciate that lots find finances boring,if other documents had been lodged at CH I might have been able to trace the changes of ownership from the outset right through to the current time.I remember that during the Longson reign,one of the Burton breweries held a large block of shares,which inhibited what the club could do (on the flip side,it did give a measure of stability). I've a feeling (and only that) that it was only when the brewery agreed to sell their stock that the construction of the Ley Stand could go ahead.

The excellent Anton Rippon seems to be very good on our playing history,but I don't know if he has anything on past ownership.

Just a few more snippets I've uncovered.There were obviously season tickets in those days,because shareholders were able to get a 15% discount,and players were insured against "accident".

The preamble to the purpose of change of status states " to carry into effect an agreement dated the 11th day of August 1896,made between Arthur Wilson (on behalf of Derby County Football Club) of the one part,and John Dean (as Trustee of the Company) on the other part"

They only prepared a Balance Sheet in those days -no P/L statement.Instead, the directors prepared a report on "the general state of the Company" annually.

The signatures etc relating to the first subscription were probably made with quill pens (LOL),which may be why it was so hard to read (along with some elaborate handwriting)

The documentation was overseen by Jordan &Sons Ltd, Company Registration Agents,Printers,Publishers & Stationers of 120 Chancery Lane,London    

[ramblur]

.

Clerk is also a very loose term. It can be a down-trodden shop assistant or a minor nobleman serving as a town clerk.

Must admit that when I first saw "Clerk" mentioned,I immediately thought 'Bob Cratchit'.

[Chris Mills]

My best effort at the other 2 shareholders is:-

Ernest Henry Pedley,33 Wilfred Street (Solicitors' Clerk)

Frederick Copestake,17 Friar Gate (Grocer)

 

The first board consisted of the president and vice presidents mentioned earlier,along with the following 9 others (3 of them shareholders):-

Samuel Bennett Junr. ,St Peter's Street

Arthur Brown ,Uttoxeter New Road

John Dean,St Peter's Street

Morgan Thomas Roberts ,Otter Street

John Ryley ,10 Wilmot Street

Robert James Smith ,Sale Street

George Stevens ,106 Osmaston Road

Charles Henry Taylor ,112 Osmaston Road

Thomas William Thompson ,Nottingham Road

10 Wilmot Street? I used to live there. 

[Chris Mills]

Sorry, I should elaborate. Not number 10, I used to live on Wilmot street and very close to that number though!

[AndyinLiverpool]

My knowledge onlyextends to about 1820, so it's a little out of my period, but a 'surgeon' was not necessarily a particularly prestigious title in the 18th/early 19th centuries. They tended to be blokes of limited training who lopped bits off people - many also offered haircuts and shaves. The real professionals were physicians, who were fully trained doctors. Some physicians practiced surgery so were occasionally referred to as a 'surgeon' and many proper doctors served as surgeons in the army or navy - so the water is a little muddy. It had probably changed by 1884 as the Crimean War caused such a moral outrage that the whole healthcare system was revised.

Clerk is also a very loose term. It can be a down-trodden shop assistant or a minor nobleman serving as a town clerk.

Surgeons, on the whole, by the the 1880s would have been much more professional than barber surgeons I think. It would have been post-Pasteur and Lister, post the publication of Grey's Anatomy for the first time, as well as the Lancet. However, you may be right, there may have been all sorts of people plying trades loosely described as 'surgery'.

A railway clerk would have been quite a lofty position in the railway company - akin to a civil servant - with a decent education and career prospects. Certainly higher than drivers and signalmen, for example. Consequently, they would have had a respectable position in society, especially given the importance of railways to day-to-day life in Britain at the time.

I would be interested to know what Osmaston Road was like in the 1880s.

[ramblur]

Sorry, I should elaborate. Not number 10, I used to live on Wilmot street and very close to that number though!

There you are,you've walked past part of our history without knowing it.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of our widespread fan base were descendants of some of these guys,one of the reasons I was keen to give names and addresses- who knows,someone might come on and say 'he was my great,great,great grandad (don't know how many 'greats' I'd need ).

I'd love to step into the 'Tardis' and see what was cracking off then. Maybe take in a game and chase a few away fans afterwards.

[ramblur]

Here's some history on the playing side:-

 http://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/article/the-history-of-derby-county-255102.aspx

[Mostyn6]

There you are,you've walked past part of our history without knowing it.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of our widespread fan base were descendants of some of these guys,one of the reasons I was keen to give names and addresses- who knows,someone might come on and say 'he was my great,great,great grandad (don't know how many 'greats' I'd need ).

I'd love to step into the 'Tardis' and see what was cracking off then. Maybe take in a game and chase a few away fans afterwards.

I'll digress slightly, but I'm truly fascinated by Victorian Era Derby. I've got a few books, and there's also a good website, where a photographer has found old photos and then taken new pics from the same spot as them, and does a time lapse from one to the other.

You may have seen this Sir Ram Blur, but others may not, http://www.derbyphotos.co.uk/thenandnow/

 

[ramblur]

Here's another interesting piece:-

http://spartacus-educational.com/Fderby.htm

Under "Primary Sources", I can't work out the reference to Wilson and Jervis being early pioneers.Did they play at one stage,or does it simply mean they were at the forefront of establishing the club?

Just realised that Morley (along with Wilson) were vice presidents of DCFC Ltd,with Jervis being president,so it probably means non playing pioneers.

[ramblur]

Here's an even better one,with apologies to those who may have already read it :-

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Bygones-forgotten-figures-step-shadows-past-long/story-20326726-detail/story.html 

[ramblur]

Here's a small piece on Jervis :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jervis_(cricketer,_born_1827)

Interesting to see Wilmot,Sitwell and Sacheverel mentioned at the end.

[ramblur]

This is the most comprehensive on line report I've found covering the period Duracell was interested in,and I'll call it a day now on this topic :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Derby_County_F.C._(1884–1967)

 

My research shows that Wilmot Street and Sacheverel Street were both named after famous Derbyshire families,and I guess Sitwell Street may well be the same. 

[ramblur]

Sorry,but I simply had to post this link,which gives a match report on our first League game (Uncle Arthur probably felt at home in the venue) and pen pics of our opening season squad :-

https://books.google.ie/books?id=JVKoAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT209&lpg=PT209&dq=george+bakewell+derby+county&source=bl&ots=SbMzRtk7zN&sig=AurXGrGMLPoMpju3M46kDnYBYT0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k2NVf-2DsSuUcnqpqAB&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=george bakewell derby county&f=false

[Animal is a Ram]

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw046674?search=football&ref=180

Fantastic aerial photo of Rolls-Royce, and surrounding area, plus BBG in the distance.

[ramblur]

.

I would be interested to know what Osmaston Road was like in the 1880s.

I can at least show you what it was like c1910,Andy (plus a photo of John Dean and his director's pendant-I see JD advertised his drapery business on the trams) :-

http://www.oldderbyphotos.co.uk/derby-strand-wardwick-315#photo

Start at photo 297. John Dean's shop is no 295

[AndyinLiverpool]

I can at least show you what it was like c1910,Andy (plus a photo of John Dean and his director's pendant-I see JD advertised his drapery business on the trams) :-

http://www.oldderbyphotos.co.uk/derby-strand-wardwick-315#photo

Start at photo 297.

Brilliant. Ta.

It looks relatively well-to-do. The houses have front gardens and there seems to be quite a large house and garden on the left in the middle distance.

[AndyinLiverpool]

The building at 112 Osmaston Road now appears to be called 'Derwent Villas' and looks old enough to have been there in the 1880s (but this is just conjecture). It's doubtful a building so named would have contained anything other than domiciles.

106 looks quite large too. Is it possible it was divided up into flats?

Assuming they are the same buildings as the 1880s.

[ramblur]

Brilliant. Ta.

It looks relatively well-to-do. The houses have front gardens and there seems to be quite a large house and garden on the left in the middle distance.

Yeah,I thought that too. There's another photo ,scrolling back, and there may well be more. There's even a pub outing - swear blind that a young Utch features.

[ramblur]

The building at 112 Osmaston Road now appears to be called 'Derwent Villas' and looks old enough to have been there in the 1880s (but this is just conjecture). It's doubtful a building so named would have contained anything other than domiciles.

106 looks quite large too. Is it possible it was divided up into flats?

Assuming they are the same buildings as the 1880s.

Scroll down to page 25 and you'll see 110/12 referenced to "Osmaston Surgery" :-

http://www.derby.gov.uk/media/derbycitycouncil/contentassets/documents/conservationareas/DerbyCityCouncil-Derby-Locally-Listed-Buildings-March-2011.pdf

[AndyinLiverpool]

Fascinating. Though that suggests it's 210 and 212. Could that be an error?