Training Regime

[I Am Sheep]

I've not really seen this talked about but do you think this season's training regime has been too tough on the players?

I know they're well paid professional footballers but they're still human at the end of the day and important players have picked up niggly injuries and the whole team looked tired.

It all started with the early start to pre-season training and it's been a very long season with 2 decent cup runs.

Just another idea I thought I'd throw out there.

[Tombo]

"Ran out of steam" was the quote from Mac

This was told to Keogh and he agreed and said "possibly contributed to the injury problems this squad has suffered too".

Yes.

[Animal is a Ram]

As soon as we went out to that training camp in preseason, there was chaos - Thorne did his knee, Buxton's 'hip flexor', think Whitbread had the same - that trip did us more harm than good.

[RamNut]

 

As soon as we went out to that training camp in preseason, there was chaos - Thorne did his knee, Buxton's 'hip flexor', think Whitbread had the same - that trip did us more harm than good.

Absolutely. That pre-season tour was a bloody disaster.

we did everything wrong regarding the risks with GT. we played poorly and started the league on the wrong note with some poor performances. 

the players should have been rewarded for a good season and a disappointing near miss with a nice relaxing break somewhere in the sun instead of a boot camp in the back of beyond.

[Tombo]

Martin has also said that last year the season was extended slightly with the playoffs, then players went away with international duty, and then they came back pretty much straight away for an intensive preseason schedule which is why some players have "broken down". Chrissy votes yes.

Been saying this since Forest complained about injuries last season. It applies to us now too. Injuries are no excuse. If you get a couple of injuries it can be bad luck/coincidence. When you get as many as this, you have to look at the training methods and rest periods and workloads of the players. Are we asking them perhaps to pull out of challenges less in matches? That's another contributor. How about tiring your players out by switching to direct hoofball crap from time to time and having your most technical players run after aimless balls like headless chickens rather than play it to their feet?

[Tombo]

 

Absolutely. That pre-season tour was a bloody disaster.

we did everything wrong regarding the risks with GT. we played poorly and started the league on the wrong note with some poor performances. 

the players should have been rewarded for a good season and a disappointing near miss with a nice relaxing break somewhere in the sun instead of a boot camp in the back of beyond.

​The attitude has been all wrong. I know that hindsight is 20/20 but one of the things the players talked about is McClaren pulled them in for a pre season meeting and told them that they failed last season, and so we need more from them this year. Wrong attitude entirely, we needed to think about what went RIGHT last year, and replicate it, not what went wrong. Because yeah we perhaps conceded some silly goals in the 2013/14 season but restricting our style and focusing on defense was the worst idea.

And so I certainly agree with this bit highlighted, because the players needed to remember how far they came in the season, and not spend 2 weeks in the pissing down rain in Austria focusing on their misery and being reminded "We need to work on playing through fatigue, because that why you conceded at Wembley. You all remember Wembley don't you? When you conceded right at the end?"

[I Am Sheep]

Last season was not a failure in my eyes at all. A crushing disappointment yes, but far from a failure.

This season? That's a pretty good definition of failure and I can't pin it all on the players. In fact I'm not entirely sure how much blame the players should take.

[mwram1973]

We wasn't out of the top six since Sept, we were top 3 times, last time we were 5 points clear. I didn't here people banging on about training then or Mac out.

Thorne, eustace, Mascarell, Bent, Martin, Buxton. Those being injured is the cause of our drop, not mac, not training just down right bad luck.

Rip apart any teams spine of their side and they will do nothing.

I'm in disbelief at the attitude of some fans on here towards Mac, 2 mnths ago he was god, now he's the devil.

 

[ramblur]

Yes,but this is exactly the point, as we tired towards the end of the season. As we had a fitness guru,who one would have thought must have had a significant input,Mac may not be to blame (at least not wholly).I was disappointed with yesterday,but I can't get angry with the players.If the tank's empty,then there's little you can do. Some point to the recent comebacks to claim we weren't tired,but even when the tank's near empty you can sometimes scrape up something from somewhere,but you can only do this so often.Don't forget we went 3-1 down to low table sides twice,and that must say something.

I said some time ago that if we were tired we could kiss promotion goodbye.

[Duracell]

How about tiring your players out by switching to direct hoofball crap from time to time and having your most technical players run after aimless balls like headless chickens rather than play it to their feet?

I agree with most of your post, but ​I think you've got it the wrong way round in this part. Just think about whenever you've played the game yourself. When the match starts or when you're fully fit it's really easy to knock the ball about. Your leg feels fresh and your mind feels fresh and you can spot everything. But when you're knackered, all that goes out of the window. It's almost human nature when you get to that stage to just look up and punt the ball in the general direction of your team mate. It takes a really good team, and a really fit team, to kick that habit out for 90 minutes in every match.

This all goes back to our pre-season again. Remember when we played 90 minute games straight after intensive training sessions? The thinking behind it was that our decision making would improve under tired and pressured situations. We've actually gone backwards in that area this season. Massively. I think a lot of sensible things have been said in this thread because I don't think this season has capitulated due to coffee cups, managerial rumours, shattered confidence or even the players not being good enough - the reality in some ways is worse than any of those reasons. I think it's because we're got a crocked squad and by the end of the season, we were hanging on for dear life. It all goes back to that horrid pre-season and looking back on it now, it seems so unnecessary. 

 

[I Am Sheep]

I think back to last season when Mac took over and there was that video of him training the players with some left and right game. That's good brain training for the players but I wonder how much of that sort of training has been swapped with physical training.

[jimbobram]

We wasn't out of the top six since Sept, we were top 3 times, last time we were 5 points clear. I didn't here people banging on about training then or Mac out.

Thorne, eustace, Mascarell, Bent, Martin, Buxton. Those being injured is the cause of our drop, not mac, not training just down right bad luck.

Rip apart any teams spine of their side and they will do nothing.

I'm in disbelief at the attitude of some fans on here towards Mac, 2 mnths ago he was god, now he's the devil.

 

​spot on

[ramblur]

I agree with most of your post, but ​I think you've got it the wrong way round in this part. Just think about whenever you've played the game yourself. When the match starts or when you're fully fit it's really easy to knock the ball about. Your leg feels fresh and your mind feels fresh and you can spot everything. But when you're knackered, all that goes out of the window. It's almost human nature when you get to that stage to just look up and punt the ball in the general direction of your team mate. It takes a really good team, and a really fit team, to kick that habit out for 90 minutes in every match.

This all goes back to our pre-season again. Remember when we played 90 minute games straight after intensive training sessions? The thinking behind it was that our decision making would improve under tired and pressured situations. We've actually gone backwards in that area this season. Massively. I think a lot of sensible things have been said in this thread because I don't think this season has capitulated due to coffee cups, managerial rumours, shattered confidence or even the players not being good enough - the reality in some ways is worse than any of those reasons. I think it's because we're got a crocked squad and by the end of the season, we were hanging on for dear life. It all goes back to that horrid pre-season and looking back on it now, it seems so unnecessary. 

 

​I think Will's lapse was down to mental fatigue and I feel so sorry for the lad,because it's not his fault.The character of this lad would mean that he would normally bust a gut to atone.I think he wanted to,but there was nothing left in the tank.You'd usually see him very quick to show for throw ins and this was missing yesterday-he did show,but was laboured.I also think Jeff's been knackered for ages,and I fear for next year if something's not sorted-these lads in particular need a good rest.

My main point however concerns the penalty.Now I'm only going from memory on this,so if I've got it wrong I apologise.Here we have a crucial point of the season,and the Reading and Derby players are lined up outside the box.You'd have thought our lot would have been on their toes and busting to get in on the action should it be saved,or hit bar/post.What I saw as the penno was taken were Reading players moving forward,leaving a flat footed line of our lot.Again,I don't blame them if they were phsically and mentally shot-they probably wouldn't even have been aware of it.I apologise if my eyes were playing tricks on me. 

[Alph]

Injuries, training, tinkering, tactical...

Dunno. But we moved the ball too slow and too often. 

Think back to last season. The give and go. Forsyth providing width, Ward too when he played. Russell mixing it up a bit. Wisdom didn't get forward like Forsyth but he provided width as did Christie this season when we were playing well. 

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That's the strict rigid shape Derby have been playing for a bit too long. 

Look at Reading yesterday. They didn't even play deep but they had 11 men behind the ball. Didn't have to worry about width until Ward came on. Watch Derby pass to one full back to the other with each player having 4 touches and 5 seconds. Too easy. 

Last season we were reckless. Forsyth was gone. The ball was fired quickly and often into Martin. Sometimes all he did was touch it out and someone was there to take it off his toe. Sometimes he'd keep it and Forsyth, Russell, Ward, Bamford, Bryson were beyond him. 

We've missed that pass. 

But with how rigid and slow we've been it's dissapointment after last season. Ince, as good as he is provides little width. It's up to somebody to do it but we seem to be stuck in this cone shape and scratch our heads at why all the passing options are sideways. 

When we spark into life and the pace is there and we become reckless again we score goals. 

Why are players thinking too slow? Why aren't they aggressive enough? Tiredness? Did we lose that sort of telepathy a consistent team develops? Or was McClaren's focus on control? 

 

[davenportram]

maybe the non league preseason regime better prepared the players for the rigours of a long championship season

[ramblur]

As I see it,and I'm a million miles from being a fitness expert,a reasonable pre season would consist of :-

1) Do the gruelling cross country runs to build up endurance/stamina to get you through a long season.

2) Follow this with a spell of relaxation.

3) Start on the ball work and gradually build up match fitness by steadily increasing game time in practice matches until the players are getting the full 90 minutes under their belts.

From what I can see happened last summer,there was this strange desire to stress players into playing long spells early doors,allied to high intensity training.To me this is just submitting the players to the same kind of rigours experienced during the normal season (if not worse) and thus effectively extending the season by a few weeks.All of this on top of a prior season that had been extended by the play offs.I'm not surprised by the outcome.

[Tombo]

I agree with most of your post, but ​I think you've got it the wrong way round in this part. Just think about whenever you've played the game yourself. When the match starts or when you're fully fit it's really easy to knock the ball about. Your leg feels fresh and your mind feels fresh and you can spot everything. But when you're knackered, all that goes out of the window. It's almost human nature when you get to that stage to just look up and punt the ball in the general direction of your team mate. It takes a really good team, and a really fit team, to kick that habit out for 90 minutes in every match.

This all goes back to our pre-season again. Remember when we played 90 minute games straight after intensive training sessions? The thinking behind it was that our decision making would improve under tired and pressured situations. We've actually gone backwards in that area this season. Massively. I think a lot of sensible things have been said in this thread because I don't think this season has capitulated due to coffee cups, managerial rumours, shattered confidence or even the players not being good enough - the reality in some ways is worse than any of those reasons. I think it's because we're got a crocked squad and by the end of the season, we were hanging on for dear life. It all goes back to that horrid pre-season and looking back on it now, it seems so unnecessary. 

 

​I referred more to players like Johnny Russell, who'd track back and make a good tackle, lay it off to a defender, who would then smack it down the channel for him to chase and inevitably not make it to. "Go on Johnny lad, you do all the work. I can't be arsed".