Derby County Accounts 13/14

[Rev]

​Think I was talking tired nonsense here.I don't see any way the club could have put in a revised figure after the auditors had signed off the accounts,so it looks to me that the £6.77m must relate to the summer window only.Frightening.

From memory,if what I've said is true,then Mac's net spend in one window would equal Clough's net spend during the whole of his tenure.

From the looks of that, even if we'd sold Keogh and Bryson we'd still have made a loss!

Can't think of a sizeable purchase apart from Thorne, Christie was rumored to be 300k dependent on clauses, even if a loan fee for Best is included it leaves GT as our record signing by some distance, possibly?

[ramblur]

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/derby-county/transfers/verein/22/saison_id/2014/pos//detailpos//plus/1#zugaenge

 

These both gives outgoings - including Albentosa and Shotton who signed in January as around £2.5  Take out there fees and its around £2m plus Santos and Christie's compensation. Thats a lot of compensation.

Would signing on bonusses - if paid - for players signing new contracts be included in this figure?

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/derby-county/english-football-teams/derby-county-transfers

(from the second website)

	Season 14/15
	Jonathan Mitchell	Free
	Alban Bunjaku	Free
	Zak Whitbread	Free
	Alefe Santos	Compensation
	Cyrus Christie	Compensation
	Iván Calero	Free
	George Thorne	£2,000,000
	Tom Koblenz	Free
	Ryan Shotton	£500,000
	Isak Ssewankambo	Free
	Stephen Warnock	Undisclosed
		£2,500,000

​Can't see Albentosa there,dav. Didn't we sign Dawkins this year after an initial loan,or am I imagining things? I've never trusted the accuracy of these sites,and always prefer the hard facts from the audited accounts.Signing on fees for contract extensions won't figure - they're nothing to do with purchases.

[davenportram]

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/derby-county/english-football-teams/derby-county-transfers

This is just base on disclosed fees

Since 1992-93 season we have a Net spend of £1.3m on transfers

Billy spent £4.5m in the promotion season

In 07/08 net spend £13m

 

From 08/09 season upt to 13/14 season our net spend was negative £2.1m - in other words we spent £2.1m less than we received.

 

[davenportram]

​Can't see Albentosa there,dav. Didn't we sign Dawkins this year after an initial loan,or am I imagining things? I've never trusted the accuracy of these sites,and always prefer the hard facts from the audited accounts.Signing on fees for contract extensions won't figure - they're nothing to do with purchases.

​the first link had Albebtosa but no Shotton

The second had Shotton but no Albentosa.

Both officially signed in January so can be ignored anyway. (maybe include Shotton because we might have been committed to buy when we loaned him)

Dawkins signed January 2014.

[Chris_D]

Apparently Christie was in the millions, a Coventry former players association exec with ties to the club told me this on the train after the Rotherham game - he'd been to the game to sign up Christie (and I think Keogh). Would explain some of this.

Where would loan fees and wages paid be recorded (i.e. Ibe, Best and Omar)?  Assume it would be staff costs rather than purchases?

In summer we also got Warnock I think.  Anyone else?  Plus, what did we pay for all the development squad acquisitions?  

Quickly adds up, but that's still a high number for summer purchases.

Also, have we taken on new debt with Barclays then?  Why else would we remortgage and give the bank a floating charge?  If it was just a remortgage then only the fixed charge against the stadium would be necessary, no?  Maybe the plaza is back on...

[davenportram]

Apparently Christie was in the millions, a Coventry former players association exec with ties to the club told me this on the train after the Rotherham game - he'd been to the game to sign up Christie (and I think Keogh). Would explain some of this.

Where would loan fees and wages paid be recorded (i.e. Ibe, Best and Omar)?  Assume it would be staff costs rather than purchases?

In summer we also got Warnock I think.  Anyone else?  Plus, what did we pay for all the development squad acquisitions?  

Quickly adds up, but that's still a high number for summer purchases.

Also, have we taken on new debt with Barclays then?  Why else would we remortgage and give the bank a floating charge?  If it was just a remortgage then only the fixed charge against the stadium would be necessary, no?  Maybe the plaza is back on...

​Warnock joined in January for an undisclosed fee - which wouldnt feature on the PBSE

[ramblur]

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/derby-county/english-football-teams/derby-county-transfers

This is just base on disclosed fees

Since 1992-93 season we have a Net spend of £1.3m on transfers

Billy spent £4.5m in the promotion season

In 07/08 net spend £13m

 

From 08/09 season upt to 13/14 season our net spend was negative £2.1m - in other words we spent £2.1m less than we received.

 

​Your last sentence shows just how rubbish these sites can be.I remember when one of the owners complained that they'd spent a lot more than people were giving them credit for,so I went through the Clough net spending,using hard cash shown coming in and going out via the cash flow statement,and from memory the net spend was £6.5m (and I'm pretty sure this didn't include his last summer window).Although we got cash for Miller/Earnshaw/Jones in 08/09,there was also a fair amount of spending that year,and there's absolutely no way that could wipe out the £6.5m and produce a large negative net spend.

Don't trust these sites-I've never seen Thorne/Shotton/Dawkins (for example) officially disclosed.I think they sometimes give the odd ones as "undisclosed" just to make you think they've got accurate figures for others that were actually undisclosed as well. 

[davenportram]

​Your last sentence shows just how rubbish these sites can be.I remember when one of the owners complained that they'd spent a lot more than people were giving them credit for,so I went through the Clough net spending,using hard cash shown coming in and going out via the cash flow statement,and from memory the net spend was £6.5m (and I'm pretty sure this didn't include his last summer window).Although we got cash for Miller/Earnshaw/Jones in 08/09,there was also a fair amount of spending that year,and there's absolutely no way that could wipe out the £6.5m and produce a large negative net spend.

Don't trust these sites-I've never seen Thorne/Shotton/Dawkins (for example) officially disclosed.I think they sometimes give the odd ones as "undisclosed" just to make you think they've got accurate figures for others that were actually undisclosed as well. 

​True, I dont normally use them for comparisions because of the undisclosed anomilies - but it does show a list of players that joined and in what seasons.

[Chris_D]

​Warnock joined in January for an undisclosed fee - which wouldnt feature on the PBSE

​oh yeah, so even fewer summer signings then.

[Chris_D]

actually it was Best he'd been to sign up with Christie, I remember now I've seen this (that's the guy we spoke to btw).

http://www.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/tmnw/christie_and_best_join_the_city_former_players_association_838240/index.shtml

[ramblur]

​True, I dont normally use them for comparisions because of the undisclosed anomilies - but it does show a list of players that joined and in what seasons.

​That's more like it ! The problem is that fans have an insatiable appetite for the knowledge of fees,and swallow anything (probably so they know how loudly to boo if they think they're under performing).

In reply to Chris,wages/loan fees wouldn't figure,as he guessed.

Don't know about the Barclays business yet.I'm pretty sure the Co-op had fixed and floating charges re the initial loan.

[Animal is a Ram]

Is that £15m stadium loan considered for FFP?*

 

*quite possibly a really stupid question. I'm usually pretty sound with financial type stuff, but FFP has me in knots.

[ramblur]

Is that £15m stadium loan considered for FFP?*

 

*quite possibly a really stupid question. I'm usually pretty sound with financial type stuff, but FFP has me in knots.

​No,loans have nothing to do with P/L,and therefore,by extension, FFP (apart from interest charged).Not a stupid question btw.

[ramblur]

Just checked and the tail end of note 13 attaching to the accounts says that the club's bankers (Co-op at the time) have fixed and floating charges over the whole of the company's undertakings and assets.

You have to ask the question 'What is the value of the stadium if the club goes into liquidation and a buyer can't be found?'

[ramsbottom]

Ok, so does all this mean we get to keep Will & Chrissy boy if we want to???

[ramblur]

A lot of that might be up to Will and Chrissy boy!

[Animal is a Ram]

Just checked and the tail end of note 13 attaching to the accounts says that the club's bankers (Co-op at the time) have fixed and floating charges over the whole of the company's undertakings and assets.

You have to ask the question 'What is the value of the stadium if the club goes into liquidation and a buyer can't be found?'

​Perish the thought, but wouldn't the stadium fall to the bank, given there's still a loan? Assuming, of course the loan was secured against the stadium, not against other DCFC assets?

[Curtains]

Ramblur did Cloughie have as much to spend as McClaren because I think it wasn't far off myself .

I would buy you a pint bye the way if we met no problem. 

[ramsbottom]

A lot of that might be up to Will and Chrissy boy!

​I'm kidding myself, they'll be going before their holiday plane lands...

[Chris_D]

ok, so like for like in that sense, but didn't we owe Co-op way more than the mortgage when those charges were registered?

Suppose they could want both to hedge against stadium depreciation.