R.I.P Nelson Mandela

[smiffy]

So events that happened a hundred years ago can be used to justify slaughtering innocents in a Birmingham pub?

Strange morality you have there.

Fail to see your logic mate, we were talking history and cause, is history for you 30 years ago ?.

Why do you think so many Irish went to America ?.

[RamNut]

Fail to see your logic mate, we were talking history and cause, is history for you 30 years ago ?.Why do you think so many Irish went to America ?.

Who cares?

It was another generation's issues.

[PrivateDerby]

Can't really say he was a humanitarian with the mates he had, he never once knocked what they were doing or did.

It's tricky depending on how you feel about it, my squaddie mate who's done various tours feels physically sick about where we've sent him and what we've made him do in theatre.

Interestingly, yesterday he said something along the lines of "wonder if we'll all be clapping for the Lee Rigby hackers in 40 years time?"

Wasn't sure myself, been thinking about it today and I'm still not? but that's what he said...

[Cisse]

Who cares?

It was another generation's issues.

I care a lot about what my parents, grandparents and my relatives have gone through with war and everything. The history keeps repeating itself mainly because so many people think just like that - who cares, not my problem. Those people 50 years ago or 100 years ago are no less valuable than people will get killed tomorrow all over the world.

[derbydan]

Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights

 

1981 – 2 car bombs at Durban showrooms
1983 – Church Street Bomb (killed 19, wounded 217)
1984 – Durban car bomb (killed 5, wounded 27)
1985-1987 – At least 150 landmines on farm roads (killed 125)
1985 – Amanzimtoti Sanlam shopping centre bomb Dec 23 (killed 2 white women and 3 white children)
1986 – Magoo’s Bar bomb (killed 3, wounded 69)
1986 – Newcastle Court bomb (wounded 24)
1987 – Johannesburg Court bomb (killed 3, wounded 10)
1987 – Wits command centre car bomb (killed 1, wounded 68)
1988 – Johannesburg video arcade (killed 1 unborn baby, wounded 10)
1988 – Roodepoort bank bomb (killed 4, wounded 18)
1988 – Pretoria Police housing unit, 2 bombs (wounded 3)
1988 – Magistrate’s Court bomb (killed 3)
1988 – Benoni Wimpy Bar bomb (killed 1, wounded 56)
1988 – Witbank shopping centre bomb (killed 2, wounded 42)
1988 – Ellis Park Rugby Stadium car bomb (killed 2, wounded 37)
Late 1980s – numerous Wimpy Restaurant bombs (killed many, wounded many)

 

"http://theplayhouse.org.uk/ontheedge/files/2010/09/Terrorist-or-freedom-fighter" alt="Terrorist-or-freedom-fighter">

[derbydan]

Not a saint or hero?

 

Which was the lesser of two evils - apartheid or a few power lines?

 

As far as 'each to their own' is concerned, who are yours - Eugene Terreblanche's fine upstanding white boys?

 

A few power lines?? see my last post

 

Its asif now he's dead & he did some good all his atrocities should be forgotten? Know I'm not saying Eugene Terreblanche was any better but no-one is going around in the world wide press calling that man a hero!

[mozza]

Can't really say he was a humanitarian with the mates he had, he never once knocked what they were doing or did.

It's tricky depending on how you feel about it, my squaddie mate who's done various tours feels physically sick about where we've sent him and what we've made him do in theatre.

Interestingly, yesterday he said something along the lines of "wonder if we'll all be clapping for the Lee Rigby hackers in 40 years time?"

Wasn't sure myself, been thinking about it today and I'm still not? but that's what he said...

 

 

Heaven forbid !!

[ladyram]

Well if what he did made him bad, what about what the South Africans suffered under British colonial rule? What does that make us?

[RamNut]

I care a lot about what my parents, grandparents and my relatives have gone through with war and everything. The history keeps repeating itself mainly because so many people think just like that - who cares, not my problem. Those people 50 years ago or 100 years ago are no less valuable than people will get killed tomorrow all over the world.

Of course we care about what our parents and grandparents suffered and why.

But we can't legitimise car bombs, knee-cappings, organised crime, beheadings, or torture today because of incidents from the distant past.

As mandela said.... let the past remain in the past.

[SuperSheep]

Well this was supposed to be an appreciation thread; but whatever...

[uttoxram75]

Can't really say he was a humanitarian with the mates he had, he never once knocked what they were doing or did.

It's tricky depending on how you feel about it, my squaddie mate who's done various tours feels physically sick about where we've sent him and what we've made him do in theatre.

Interestingly, yesterday he said something along the lines of "wonder if we'll all be clapping for the Lee Rigby hackers in 40 years time?"

Wasn't sure myself, been thinking about it today and I'm still not? but that's what he said...

I'm not sure how Lee Rigby's murderers can be associated with the struggle of black africans for equality in their own country PD?

If a completely different race of people took over England, subjected us all to virtual slavery, killed or imprisoned us if we complained, denied us basic rights, refused to allow elections, etc, etc, i'd like to think some of us would be brave enough to fight back - even though we'd be classed as terrorists or enemies of the state.  

[twinkletoes]

Nelson Mandelas dead?? seriously this hasn't been on tele and he was such a well man ......didnt see this coming at all .....

Top man though

[PrivateDerby]

I'm not sure how Lee Rigby's murderers can be associated with the struggle of black africans for equality in their own country PD?

If a completely different race of people took over England, subjected us all to virtual slavery, killed or imprisoned us if we complained, denied us basic rights, refused to allow elections, etc, etc, i'd like to think some of us would be brave enough to fight back - even though we'd be classed as terrorists or enemies of the state.  

 

Well he's a strange one, never used to be but that's understandable. He related it to how some British muslims, jihads or whatever feel about what we are doing or not doing abroad to their countries, people and family's etc. and how they have and will retaliate because of it. I know you know your world affairs mate, way more than I do anyway and probably heard it on the tele and that but have a read of the court transcripts and what them two have been saying... it's all very similar, even if it is far fetched and hard to see from a British point of view.

 

Muslim's are the biggest reproducers in the country now, so if Britain carry on the way they are and those views amongst them follow on and increase, it could get scary.

 

Well that's what he reckons anyway and I can sort of see what he's saying.

[uttoxram75]

Well he's a strange one, never used to be but that's understandable. He related it to how some British muslims, jihads or whatever feel about what we are doing or not doing abroad to their countries, people and family's etc. and how they have and will retaliate because of it. I know you know your world affairs mate, way more than I do anyway and probably heard it on the tele and that but have a read of the court transcripts and what them two have been saying... it's all very similar, even if it is far fetched and hard to see from a British point of view.

 

Muslim's are the biggest reproducers in the country now, so if Britain carry on the way they are and those views amongst them follow on and increase, it could get scary.

 

Well that's what he reckons anyway and I can sort of see what he's saying.

Its a concern mate but i don't see how its related to Mandela.

[PrivateDerby]

Its a concern mate but i don't see how its related to Mandela.

 

I think it's more the mindset of the two that interests him, they obviously have a serious problem with our past and present government and feel nobody listens to them, why do it otherwise? They're both British and are pretty much saying that they're standing up for what is right, are they? Was Nelson? I suppose it's like that Celtic flag t'other day?

 

Fooked if I know, i'm thick, it's long term and we won't be here, same people will be running the show though.

[eddie]

A few power lines?? see my last post

 

Its asif now he's dead & he did some good all his atrocities should be forgotten? Know I'm not saying Eugene Terreblanche was any better but no-one is going around in the world wide press calling that man a hero!

 

I see your banks and raise you one Sharpeville Massacre.

 

At the time that Mandela was imprisoned, the ANC had 'only' been involved in acts of sabotage. THAT was the crime that Mandela was imprisoned for - sabotage. Not murder, not incitement - sabotage.

 

"Operating through a cell structure, the MK agreed to acts of sabotage to exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties, bombing military installations, power plants, telephone lines and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela himself stated that they chose sabotage not only because it was the least harmful action, but also "because it did not involve loss of life [and] it offered the best hope for reconciliation among the races afterward."

[Gritstone Ram]

Well if what he did made him bad, what about what the South Africans suffered under British colonial rule? What does that make us?

Them Zulu's gave us a good spanking at Rorkes Drift though.

[uttoxram75]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of other "causes" there can be no doubt that Mandela fought for the right reason.

 

South Africa was not a democracy. The majority of its people could not vote and had no say in the governance of their own country. 

 

Used to boil my piss when i was younger that Thatcher would be all "nanny knows best" talking about democracy and freedom but condone mass murder by fascist dictatorships like Chile and South Africa. Many Tories at the time demanded that Mandela be hanged as he was a threat to the mining and banking businesses that they had interests in. If the blacks took power it might impact on the gold and diamonds profits they made.

 

Shunt get bothered with it now at my age but I've always been on the side of the little people who stand up against the might of overwhelming power. The sheer physical courage for a few brave souls to take on a huge military dictatorship knowing life imprisonment at best is the likely outcome, fills me with hope and pride in my fellow humans.

 

When people talk about the greatest Englishmen of all time I automatically think of Wat Tyler or the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Then i think, what a sad **** i am as hardly any fecker has heard of them!

[froggg]

One or two have.....

[uttoxram75]

Them Zulu's gave us a good spanking at Rorkes Drift though.

I blame Michael Caine!