Bris Vegas Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 The point I'm making, Bris, is that Spanish players are just as big fairies as anyone else - and saying "Clearly he was hurt because he was holding his ankle" is just silly. Where that are alike is that both conned the ref. Erm, Dani Alves is Brazilian. Plus, it's no different to what happens in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 There was zero contact, Alves conned the ref simple as. Yes it was a high boot, possible yellow but that reaction was ridiculous. Did he go off injured? You don't have to go off injured to mean it was an awful tackle... Messi got up and played on after this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbeard Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Be rooting for Real Madrid on Wednesday. Can't stand Nazi's Oy! Stop persecuting us Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oy! Stop persecuting us Nazis. Only playing. There's not enough Nazi managers imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I agree with the sentiment that football doesn't reflect the diverse culture of a place like Derby. But having a nobhead like Jason Roberts just tweeting about it all the time isn't going to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only playing. There's not enough Nazi managers imo Clone di Canio "http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy101/luckyeddie_photo/paolo-di-canio-fascist-salute1_zps263ba1c2" alt="paolo-di-canio-fascist-salute1_zps263ba1"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 If I'm honest, I did nazi that coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbeard Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 di Canio's a Fascist, not a Nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 di Canio's a Fascist, not a Nazi. Really - are you stating that there's a fundamental difference other than the obvious? Nazis were, purely and simply, a subset of fascists. They were, solely, members of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party - an organisation that ceased to exist at the end of the Second World War. In general parlance, the two terms now are pretty well mutually exchangeable. I also said 'Clone di Canio'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 You don't have to go off injured to mean it was an awful tackle... Messi got up and played on after this... A good old fist fight like in hockey would have been great way to solve that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaave Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Any thoughts on this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/basketball/27227346 Time football followed NBA's lead on racism - John Amaechi By John Amaechi Psychologist and former NBA player Make no mistake, the decision by the National Basketball Association to sanction Donald Sterling was not a foregone conclusion. Many players and observers feared they would be left disappointed by a tepid response to the bigotry heard in the rantings of the Los Angeles Clippers owner. Indeed, the National Basketball Players Association (NBPA) and many of the current play-off teams had already made plans for game-day activism had NBA commissioner Adam Silver not been decisive enough. Some had decided to walk on to the court when introduced to the crowd prior to a game, then promptly walk off again. Others were intent on not showing up at all. In the end, there was no need to have worried, although the NBPA has made it clear that it will only be totally satisfied the issue has been dealt with properly when Sterling and the Clippers part company. Silver looked openly disgusted as he addressed the media on Tuesday following the conclusion of an investigation into racist comments made by Sterling in a taped conversation leaked to the public last week. The Los Angeles Clippers staged a silent protest by going through a pre-match routine on Sunday with their shirts on inside-out to hide the team's logo He proceeded to announce that Sterling - one of 30 team owners - has been banned from participation, attendance or association with the NBA for life. The fine was only a token amount for a billionaire, just $2.5m (£1.5m), but it was the maximum permissible under the NBA's internal regulations. Then came the truly bold move by Silver as he called on the other 29 owners to vote in favour of forcing Sterling to sell the Clippers. It is clear from the dozen or so major sponsors who have ended their relationships with the Clippers after Sterling's comments became public that Silver's stance was based as much on sound business sense as it was on complying with the league's stated values and principles. That is because this incident does not just damage the Clippers, it also damages the NBA. As for Sterling, do not feel sorry for this bigot if he is forced to sell. This is not a question of curtailing free speech, this is about the NBA finally and explicitly declaring bigotry has no fit with their sport. A plantation mentality still exists with some owners and administrators. However, it is not just black people being treated badly but women, homosexuals and other ethnic minorities. In the case of Sterling, he would hire black men and even take a black woman as his mistress, but he did not want them at a Clippers game, nor to have a "selfie" with them. That attitude strips sport of any higher purpose just as it diminishes those it strips of their dignity. As I have said, do not feel sorry for Sterling. He bought the Clippers in the 1980s for $12m (£7.1m) and they are now worth at least $800m (£474.5m). Even if other owners succeed in pushing him off his lofty perch, his parachute is very, very golden. This may well be a watershed moment for basketball, one of those few times that the NBA's executives, owners, fans, players and retired players' associations are all on the same page in their rejection of the sentiments of hate. Sadly, I think it highly unlikely that this moment for the NBA will be a catalyst for other leading leagues to act. I applauded the NBA's decision but was then immediately saddened when I compared their stance with the relative inaction on such issues in other sports like football, both domestically in the United Kingdom and from international federations. Think about the boldness of the NBA's resolve here. The deeply offensive but private words of a team owner are made public via a gossip site and within three days he is entirely disassociated from the league. On the other hand, I look at football and see bananas continue to rain down on pitches, fascists chanting their abhorrent messages from the stands, homophobes grinning while holding offensive murals. Nothing seems to be done. Sanctions for acts that are at least as distasteful and certainly as damaging to football as Sterling's 11-minute racist rant was to basketball seem to receive a slap on the wrist in contrast. I was reminded by a fan on Twitter of the "vigorous resolve" of football to stamp out bigotry. All I can say in response is that either football is apathetic or it is impotent in its efforts. Most of its education campaigns strike me as PR window dressing. Its sanctions are laughable in the face of the money involved in the game. As for a sense of urgency, when do we ever see an incident arise on a Sunday and an investigation completed and sanctions levied by the Tuesday afternoon? I know Silver. He has a tough job following David Stern, his predecessor, but he has passed this test of his leadership well. There are still questions, of course. The fact is that the NBA has known that Sterling has long had 'issues' with race. From the United States justice department's biggest ever settlement for an issue of housing discrimination, to being sued by Elgin Baylor, an NBA legend and former Clippers general manager, there should be scrutiny of the number of years Sterling has been given a pass. However, in a crucial moment when the league had to act decisively, it did that - and that is a decision sport can build on. When talking about similar incidents in football, which deals with seemingly systematic issues of bigotry, I have always said that the banana-throwing, homophobic and anti-Semitic chanting and the like are just symptoms of the internal lack of resolve to really root out such issues. Instead, football should look to educate supporters, empower players, review policies and, yes, harshly sanction owners, administrators and teams when they err, not just punish fans who have taken their cue from the sport's impotence. In fact, all of sport should take a cue from the Sterling incident. The fleeing sponsors, the media firestorm, the fan outrage and the player activism show what can happen if sport continues to fail to act. If football does not act, its failure emboldens the bigots, both in the stands and in the boardrooms, to the extent that the monster that is eventually created corrupts the beautiful game. I like to think that a similar scenario with a Premier League owner would've resulted in a similar outcome, am I just deluded? Also the fact remains that this known racist has been in charge of an NBA team since the 80s with nothing done about it until he manages to get himself taped being his ignorant self. A cynic might even suggest that the league only took the hardline action they did now because of potential for lost revenue due to sponsors pulling out... There is obviously still a problem with racism in football, as highlighted by the Dani Alves incident just days ago. Unfortunately it is much harder to stamp out behaviour such as that being performed by one (or a few) almost anonymous idiots in a large crowd. More should be done to try perhaps, but what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Football is not the problem. Racism is in society. Religious intolerance is in society. Bigotry is in society. Violence is in society. You can cover it up, pretend it's not there, hide behind the politically correct etc. etc. To avoid any of these things however you will have to live on the moon. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbeard Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Really - are you stating that there's a fundamental difference other than the obvious? Nazis were, purely and simply, a subset of fascists. They were, solely, members of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party - an organisation that ceased to exist at the end of the Second World War. In general parlance, the two terms now are pretty well mutually exchangeable. I also said 'Clone di Canio'. I would say that Nazism is a super set of fascism rather than a subset. In other words, a National Socialist would probably subscribe to all the basic ideology of fascism plus other ideas that a fascist wouldn't necessarily agree with. Also, as you say, the N.S.D.P. ceased to exist in 1945 so someone could be a neo-Nazi but not a Nazi. But that's just nit picking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Football is not the problem. Racism is in society. Religious intolerance is in society. Bigotry is in society. Violence is in society. You can cover it up, pretend it's not there, hide behind the politically correct etc. etc. To avoid any of these things however you will have to live on the moon. Sad but true. Sadly it's deeper than that - it's base human nature. The psychology of in- and out-groups - anyone that we perceive different to ourselves, will be treated worse than those we perceive to be similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I would say that Nazism is a super set of fascism rather than a subset. In other words, a National Socialist would probably subscribe to all the basic ideology of fascism plus other ideas that a fascist wouldn't necessarily agree with. Also, as you say, the N.S.D.P. ceased to exist in 1945 so someone could be a neo-Nazi but not a Nazi. But that's just nit picking. Both groups/subsets want disembowelling slowly with a spoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimbeard Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Both groups/subsets want disembowelling slowly with a spoon. Not a fan then? I feel much the same about communists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needles Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Really - are you stating that there's a fundamental difference other than the obvious? Nazis were, purely and simply, a subset of fascists. They were, solely, members of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party - an organisation that ceased to exist at the end of the Second World War. In general parlance, the two terms now are pretty well mutually exchangeable. I also said 'Clone di Canio'. But they shouldn't be from an Italian perspective. National Socialism as a German movement under Hitler and all his little pixies was a far warped step removed from Mussolini and his vile, militaristic 19th century style empire building nationalism. For us it was all one enemy, for Italians, maybe it's something different. It's unpalatable, but if we're having democracy and freedom, it has to include the freedom to believe things different to what I believe. Or we've got Fascism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 No problem. They can believe in an extreme right wing nationalist philosophy, I can believe in disembowelling spoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Spoonist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Spoonist! Fork off - that cutlery to the bone. That's not a knife way to spork to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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