British and Irish Lions

[zaragozaram]

Lucky for me then that you, and the people you know, are in the minority. I would guess that Rugby Union is the second biggest team sport in the world in terms of players/countries. (I have no proof for that stat, so am prepared to be shot down!)

[Srg]

Wikipedia says, according to average attendance of professional sports, NFL biggest, then football, then Aussie rules football, then baseball. Guess it's a poor judge as a couple or three of those are very nationalised sports.

[zaragozaram]

I would argue for a sport to be considered the biggest, it has to be a global game. Therefore, in my eyes Baseball, NFL, Aussie rules ect are out. It is a difficult thing to quantify as there are so many criteria. Do you go on;

 

No of players/teams?

No of countries? 

No of fans?

Revenue?

 

It is an interesting debate
 

[eddie]

Wikipedia says, according to average attendance of professional sports, NFL biggest, then football, then Aussie rules football, then baseball. Guess it's a poor judge as a couple or three of those are very nationalised sports.

 

NFL?

 

Since when was armoured wankball a sport? It's about on a par with chess and wrestling.

[zaragozaram]

NFL?

 

Since when was armoured wankball a sport? It's about on a par with chess and wrestling.

 

Not a fan then?

 

Maybe you are right though, before we can answer our question about Rugby, we have to decide what is a sport?

[sheeponacid]

Lucky for me then that you, and the people you know, are in the minority. I would guess that Rugby Union is the second biggest team sport in the world in terms of players/countries. (I have no proof for that stat, so am prepared to be shot down!)

You could be right on that matter but I'm afraid it's not a big sport in Aus, with the exception of Internationals it runs a distant 6th or 7th behind ARL, Rugby League, Cricket, Netball, Basketball & Tennis.....

 

Hence why I stated that we should be able to hammer them at Union due to their poor player pool..just as they do us with Rugby League due to their massive player pool...... I appreciate union.. although was brought up on League & Aussie rules prior to football...

[eddie]

Not a fan then?

 

Maybe you are right though, before we can answer our question about Rugby, we have to decide what is a sport?

 

Correct, not a fan of something where you run 3 yards and then need oxygen.

[sheeponacid]

Wikipedia says, according to average attendance of professional sports, NFL biggest, then football, then Aussie rules football, then baseball. Guess it's a poor judge as a couple or three of those are very nationalised sports.

Think TV viewing should also be taken into account....even in this country Rugby League matches on Sky have greater viewing figures than union despite union having far more clubs, player participation & media publicity ....

 

Alas years of sporting apartheid by Union in allowing only Union to be played in University's has left many of these old boys in positions of power in key media positions & also in companies who sponsor sport...jeez at one point you were banned from playing union if you dared have a game of league.

 

In France the situation was even worse with the French Rugby Union agreeing to collaborate with the nazi puppet government in exchange for League being banned in France...with all its assets being given to Union...Something that French RL has struggled to recover from..

 

So I am not for an instance suggesting that league is bigger than Union worldwide or in this country although it does dominate Aus, & some of the pacific countries (fastest growing sport in NZ)....but it has suffered from what was until recent years a blind hatred from Unions old school network for daring to split from the main branch for reasons which I think are well known...

 

Sorry Srg went of the point after the TV figures bit....

[zaragozaram]

Didn´t intend this to turn into a league vs union debate per se. I understand the historical arguments why union developed more than league but since 1987 (i.e. the first Rugby Union World Cup) only Union has advanced to a point where it could be described as global. Has league expanded out of it´s Yorkshire/Lancs/SE Australia heartlands in that time? 

[sheeponacid]

Didn´t intend this to turn into a league vs union debate per se. I understand the historical arguments why union developed more than league but since 1987 (i.e. the first Rugby Union World Cup) only Union has advanced to a point where it could be described as global. Has league expanded out of it´s Yorkshire/Lancs/SE Australia heartlands in that time? 

Union is much more global hands I totally admit it,

 

The Aussie statement is a little bit off beam though, there are countless franchises investing million from other areas in Aus desperately trying to gain access into the NRL, personally I find it amazing how the NRL can leave Perth & Wellington (NZ) dangling...I see this as a major flaw in the NRL which needs addressing before the expected 2016 season.....Billion dollar+ TV deal & sponsorship pouring out from every crevice, but expansion can wait as their already in the land of milk & honey is in my opinion not a great long term business plan.

 

It is however the national game of PNG, the second biggest sport in NZ, & either the biggest or 2nd biggest in the pacific islands (Fiji, Samoa etc). In France it compares unfavourably with only 120 odd clubs to unions 1500+ clubs.

 

There are leagues in Wales, Ireland, Norway, South Africa, Russia, Serbia, Italy, USA, Canada amongst other countries, all at amateur or semi pro level though (likewise so are many of Unions in these places).... So whilst I doubt that League will manage to get on an even keel with Union, it is growing & at a faster rate than Union in a fair number of the places mentioned...

 

Lets look at the UK union it hardly makes a ripple in Scotland except at international level, the north of England you have Newcastle & Sale... then your just left with the heartlands of the Midland, Wales & the South....so although whilst better spread than league its hardly a national game (if were talking amateur  then League is also national as it to as leagues at amateur level throughout the midlands, Southeast/west, Wales Scotland etc).

 

I repeat Union is bigger but league is spreading.....the original post I repeat...we should be beating Australia for Union has a very poor player pool their in comparison to our player pool...

[zaragozaram]

Cheers for that. Please don´t think I am anti-league, I am not. I was just brought up with union, so that is what I played.

 

So back to the original question. Rugby Union - Second biggest global team sport?

[ladyram]

"http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02597/northpoint_2597358b" alt="northpoint_2597358b">

That pics great - if you look closely and read his lips, he says "f*** off. Hehehehe

And their fly half's crap.

[zaragozaram]

That pics great - if you look closely and read his lips, he says "f*** off. Hehehehe

And their fly half's crap.

 

Got to say, I didn´t like it when Georgie boy did that. Too much showboating creeping in, thanks to Chris Ashton and others. Just get on with the bloody game.

[ladyram]

Got to say, I didn´t like it when Georgie boy did that. Too much showboating creeping in, thanks to Chris Ashton and others. Just get on with the bloody game.

Maybe, but at the same time there's nowt wrong with a good bit of old fashioned adreneline, along with a bit of confidence in his own ability to get that try - with a message that the Aussies won't have it their own way.

[Srg]

Cheers for that. Please don´t think I am anti-league, I am not. I was just brought up with union, so that is what I played.

 

So back to the original question. Rugby Union - Second biggest global team sport?

 

I would imagine even cricket is played more wide spread, just because of India... and it's played in the same places that's Rugby is played in.

[ladyram]

Got to say, I didn´t like it when Georgie boy did that. Too much showboating creeping in, thanks to Chris Ashton and others. Just get on with the bloody game.

It seems he's apologised for it. Can't believe it really, not for pointing! How about their player apologising for stamping on Jones's face?

Can't see the need to say sorry for showing a bit of passion and patriotism. Should we stop singing the Anthems or stop the AB's from doing the Haka because it's not gentlemanly?

How ridiculous would that be?

[StockholmRam]

Rugby Union and League are fantastic sports. Growing globally too. And for me I would rather my young un growing up playing Rugby than football. Football is losing its soul. Prima donna w@nkers rolling around like someone has whacked them with a baseball bat!! No respect, over rated, gahhhhhhhhhhh.......its becoming a real knob ends sport!! Over paid, corrupt,

Bring back the 70s. Football was great then. Feel V sorry for Rams fans who have only ever seen Paul Green or Jay McEverly play!!

[LeedsCityRam]

 

In France the situation was even worse with the French Rugby Union agreeing to collaborate with the nazi puppet government in exchange for League being banned in France...with all its assets being given to Union...Something that French RL has struggled to recover from..

 

 

Union is much more global hands I totally admit it,

 

The Aussie statement is a little bit off beam though, there are countless franchises investing million from other areas in Aus desperately trying to gain access into the NRL, personally I find it amazing how the NRL can leave Perth & Wellington (NZ) dangling...I see this as a major flaw in the NRL which needs addressing before the expected 2016 season.....Billion dollar+ TV deal & sponsorship pouring out from every crevice, but expansion can wait as their already in the land of milk & honey is in my opinion not a great long term business plan.

 

It is however the national game of PNG, the second biggest sport in NZ, & either the biggest or 2nd biggest in the pacific islands (Fiji, Samoa etc). In France it compares unfavourably with only 120 odd clubs to unions 1500+ clubs.

 

There are leagues in Wales, Ireland, Norway, South Africa, Russia, Serbia, Italy, USA, Canada amongst other countries, all at amateur or semi pro level though (likewise so are many of Unions in these places).... So whilst I doubt that League will manage to get on an even keel with Union, it is growing & at a faster rate than Union in a fair number of the places mentioned...

 

Lets look at the UK union it hardly makes a ripple in Scotland except at international level, the north of England you have Newcastle & Sale... then your just left with the heartlands of the Midland, Wales & the South....so although whilst better spread than league its hardly a national game (if were talking amateur  then League is also national as it to as leagues at amateur level throughout the midlands, Southeast/west, Wales Scotland etc).

 

 

Sorry fella. You're right when you say League is bigger than union in Aus & that Union is the bigger international game but there's so many inaccuracies in the comments above.

 

1. Yes you're right in the sense the Vichy regime encouraged Union over League. However, that regime fell in 1944 - the French have had 69 years to return to playing & watching League & they never did. Surely if Union was seen as the "game of the Nazis" as some League folk claim, the French would have shunned it post WW2??

 

2. Union has a much greater supporter base in this country relative to League - look at the spread of clubs in the Aviva Premiership & Championship relative to League - from Leicester to London, the South West, significant clubs in the north like Sale & Newcastle. Outside of the M62 corridor, League have one single token club - London Broncos - who average around 2000 for home gates. Only 2 big population areas in the North are interested in the game - Leeds & Hull. Even Sale average twice as much as Salford - the only club in Manchester. Even league 2 Bradford City get bigger crowds than Bradford Bulls - one of the "marquee clubs" in SL

 

3. League being a faster growing sport in Italy, South Africa, USA etc isn't difficult - as no-one plays it in those countries!!! Italy officially had zero rugby league players or clubs until recently!

 

I genuinely feel sorry for League - I actually disagree with you about it being a national sport in UK as I think its dying in this country. Attendances are dropping in Super League, Sky TV coverage is now very muted & lazy, most of the clubs are broke, it has proved itself utterly incapable of expanding in England beyond M62 corridor - Super League couldn't even get a sponsor until a  few weeks in to the season!!!

 

I only see this getting worse as Union further adapts to the professional era & seeks to cut out some of the current nonsense such as constant re-set scrums etc

[sheeponacid]

Sorry fella. You're right when you say League is bigger than union in Aus & that Union is the bigger international game but there's so many inaccuracies in the comments above.

 

1. Yes you're right in the sense the Vichy regime encouraged Union over League. However, that regime fell in 1944 - the French have had 69 years to return to playing & watching League & they never did. Surely if Union was seen as the "game of the Nazis" as some League folk claim, the French would have shunned it post WW2??

 

2. Union has a much greater supporter base in this country relative to League - look at the spread of clubs in the Aviva Premiership & Championship relative to League - from Leicester to London, the South West, significant clubs in the north like Sale & Newcastle. Outside of the M62 corridor, League have one single token club - London Broncos - who average around 2000 for home gates. Only 2 big population areas in the North are interested in the game - Leeds & Hull. Even Sale average twice as much as Salford - the only club in Manchester. Even league 2 Bradford City get bigger crowds than Bradford Bulls - one of the "marquee clubs" in SL

 

3. League being a faster growing sport in Italy, South Africa, USA etc isn't difficult - as no-one plays it in those countries!!! Italy officially had zero rugby league players or clubs until recently!

 

I genuinely feel sorry for League - I actually disagree with you about it being a national sport in UK as I think its dying in this country. Attendances are dropping in Super League, Sky TV coverage is now very muted & lazy, most of the clubs are broke, it has proved itself utterly incapable of expanding in England beyond M62 corridor - Super League couldn't even get a sponsor until a  few weeks in to the season!!!

 

I only see this getting worse as Union further adapts to the professional era & seeks to cut out some of the current nonsense such as constant re-set scrums etc

Hiya mate,,,in response to your comments...think your tripping a little..but lets see..as its all good fun..

 

I accept that league in France has ample time to recover since the 1945 & should of made a better fist of things so I think your pretty ok with your statement......still the Catalan Dragons are doing ok & last weeks game in Toulouse attracted an attendance of almost 15'000 for a game that had no home team involvement..I think that the introduction of a league team in Toulouse (at super league level) would be a success, but I accept that this is just speculation...I was led to believe however, that the Vichy did not so much encourage union over league but actually banned league &  confiscated its assets, but I bow to your wisdom as you have obviously researched your facts better than I??

 

I think I had already stated that Union had a bigger following in the UK..but to say that it has a big presence in the North is pretty much gobbledegook, yes you have Sale who the fans rally behind as its token club in a far better way than the southern league fans rally behind the Broncos & you also have the poorly supported Newcastle in the NE (I accept that their attendances are better than the long suffering Broncos) but these are the two outposts of union in a league dominated landscape...As for Salford well they have suffered from poor performances season on season & have lost generations of fans to nearby clubs such as Wigan & Warrington...The cash now being pumped into the club by Dr K will see the 2014 season as a real test to whether they are able to harness support again (by the way. Salford was not in Manchester the last time I live their)....

 

Your third point is bob on..

 

Your final finale though??? last season was the best supported league season in recent memory & the best since super league began....sky viewing figures, show league to be its second best supported regular sport behind yeh Football, its viewing figures are roughly double those that Union bring in, god just think what they would be if the presentation wasn't so lazy....Yes many teams are struggling financially as are more than a few in Union for every Bradford theres a Wasps..As for expansion yes its struggling to move southwards in the way that Union struggles to crack the North...Anyway as you rightly point out slowly but surely Union rules are changing as it slowly morphs into league.... so one day we will have league all over but under the Union name...

 

And finally the point I originally made was that the best of all our Unions players from across the whole of the UK struggle to beat a nation were Union seldom registers in the nations mind...& were its best player is a former league player who couldn't find a club...a nation that's governing body is far more financially struggling than league is here, basically without Internationals it would be dead already...

 

Mate I hope the Lions stuff the Aussies, I am one of only two in our family not born in Aus, I accept that I will probaly never see our league team beat the Roos regularly, but to get the stick I do from the rest of the clan as they P themselves about how their Union team so often puts us through the cleaners is another ribbing I can do without...

 

Thank god for the Cricket, & I not keen on that game either, but they are...yes....

[sheeponacid]

By the way what is your understanding of a sport being played nationally?? Is it to have a pro team in all counties or is to actually to have clubs in all counties giving people the opportunity to play, all be it at amateur level..if it is the former then neither sport is national...if it is the latter then both sports are played throughout England & Ireland...as their is now no county that does not have at least one RL club..