Stedcfc Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Sorry to start another Clough tactics thread but i did have a look for one and couldn't find it. I really feel at the moment that Clough is forcing us into incorrect formations through his reluctance to choose between players. At the moment he is refusing to pick 2 of either Hendrick, Bryson and Hughes and is therefore forcing us to play a 4-5-1. The only time we've played a 4-4-2 recently is when Hendrick and Bryson weren't fit. We had the same problem when Theo was playing well but Clough wanted to play a 4-5-1 so decided to shove Theo on the wing when it was obvious that at least 3 players would be better in that position. I can't understand why he seems to just see who is playing well and then pick an 11 based on that rather than look at what formation is needed and then pick the players (what I would assume is the way it should be!). Interesting that Hull played 3 at the back as a few teams have done this season. If we insist on playing 5 in midfield maybe this would be worth a go at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 We're not good enough defensively to play 3 at the back. We can't even defend simple set pieces. 4-5-1 is the best formation to play with the players we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RampantRam Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 We're not good enough defensively to play 3 at the back. We can't even defend simple set pieces. 4-5-1 is the best formation to play with the players we have. I agree, the way he sets up the team is right for the players we have, its just sorting out the centre of the field conondurum with Bryson, Hughes and Hendrick. I wouldn't want to push any of them out wide, but Hughes is continuously pushed wide left with Jacobs. As soon as he's out wide he becomes very quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 If 4-5-1 is our best formation then why have we been more successful with 4-4-2 and struggle with 4-5-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RampantRam Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I think its going to get increasingly hard to select the starting XI with the midfielders we have, maybe Clough is just trying to accomodate space for the midfielders he believes should start week in week out. Its noticable how Theo, Sammon, Tyson are all a lot more inconsistent than our current midfield which I feel is the strongest its been in years. Why not exploit it by playing 5 in midfield and keep hold of posession a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 If 4-5-1 is our best formation then why have we been more successful with 4-4-2 and struggle with 4-5-1. When have we struggled with 4-5-1? 4-4-2 purely accomodates Theo, who is the worst footballer at the football club, hence why 4-5-1 is the best formation for our best 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 My observation is that when 4-5-1 fails,fans want 4-4-2 (and vice versa).I think Nigel instinctively wants to play 4-4-2 most of the time,but can't find the right formula (or players to carry it out from existing resources) to make it consistently effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RampantRam Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 When have we struggled with 4-5-1? 4-4-2 purely accomodates Theo, who is the worst footballer at the football club, hence why 4-5-1 is the best formation for our best 11. You really think Theo is that bad? I agree, he's not the best player to watch sometimes but the boy knows where the goal is. Every time I want to speak ill of Theo he always shows me up by bagging a few goals in the games after. He had a bit of a purple patch, now he needs to show that he's got the consistency to stay in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 You really think Theo is that bad? I agree, he's not the best player to watch sometimes but the boy knows where the goal is. Every time I want to speak ill of Theo he always shows me up by bagging a few goals in the games after. He had a bit of a purple patch, now he needs to show that he's got the consistency to stay in the team. I think he's a hindrance for 89 minutes of the game, yeah. That other minute he's banging one in which I can't fault, I love him for his goals. Until we get a goalscorer that can also compliment his strike partner I doubt we'll go very far though. Did you see him last night? He's got no idea of how to read a game of football. I'm no footballer, coach, manager or even a kit man but I'd know to get near my striker partner when the rest of the team are banging balls up to him. The lads 20 yards away, thats no good to anyone. For all this, I don't mind 4-4-2 in games where we know we won't be over run and our strikers will see alot of the ball. It's just games like last night where I don't feel as if 4-4-2 or Theo would have really made a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 When have we struggled with 4-5-1? 4-4-2 purely accomodates Theo, who is the worst footballer at the football club, hence why 4-5-1 is the best formation for our best 11. last night a prime example... when we try to see out games at the end, spells when we tried it and lost almost every time. we dont have to play theo in a 4-4-2 we have tyson, its a more attacking formation where we perform better and win more, score more. 4-5-1 invites pressure, 4-4-2 puts the opposition under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RampantRam Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 last night a prime example... when we try to see out games at the end, spells when we tried it and lost almost every time. we dont have to play theo in a 4-4-2 we have tyson, its a more attacking formation where we perform better and win more, score more. 4-5-1 invites pressure, 4-4-2 puts the opposition under pressure. I don't think there's harm in giving Bennett a run out. Maybe not against an opponent like Hull, but it would be worth giving him more than the last 5 minutes of a game to show us what he can do when called upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I don't think there's harm in giving Bennett a run out. Maybe not against an opponent like Hull, but it would be worth giving him more than the last 5 minutes of a game to show us what he can do when called upon. end of the season if there's nothing to play for. hes still a bit young. he doesn't have the composure that hughes has it might be next year we see more of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stedcfc Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 I don't think there's harm in giving Bennett a run out. Maybe not against an opponent like Hull, but it would be worth giving him more than the last 5 minutes of a game to show us what he can do when called upon. I'd quite like to see Bennett given a run out. But at the moment Tyson isn't getting the time he deserves so its a struggle, especially with Ward coming back. Bennett came on for 10 mins against Bolton and looked really good. Think he hit the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RampantRam Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I'd quite like to see Bennett given a run out. But at the moment Tyson isn't getting the time he deserves so its a struggle, especially with Ward coming back. Bennett came on for 10 mins against Bolton and looked really good. Think he hit the post. He came on against Leicester for the last 5 minutes but it was a lost cause. Still he looked sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think between losing Ward and including Jacobs we really struggled as we literally had no wide players.. Square pegs in round holes.. We were playing with 4 CMs accross the midfield and 2 uptop.. 4-5-1 is our best formation to suit the players especially now that Jacobs offers width.. It will be interesting to see what happens when Ward is back.. I'd personally drop Coutts, the guy aint a natural wideman and he's not creative enough to play that role to good effect.. He does a job out there but IMO he's a limited footballer who works hard but offers little quality.. I'd go with Hughes, Hendrick, Brys, Jacobs, Ward and Sammon.. If things don't work, it's easy then to sacrifice a midfielder for a striker and go 4-4-2.. But I got a feeling Coutts will be accomodated somehow into the first team.. I agree with the original poster that NC seems to decide what players to play and then try and build a formation around it rather than the other way round.. Let's be honest, all season we've been accomodating Hendrick and Coutts aswell as O'Connor at times and it's partly down to a depleated squad where we don't have the natural players to play in their natural positions.. I don't think we've once played with 11 round pegs in round holes this season.. Someone has always been included in a position which isn't their strongest.. Mainly Coutts, the guy isn't a wide person and is occupying a wide persons spot. I said at the beginning of the season we desperately need a natural RW and in Coutts and Jacobs we haven't got that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydaz22 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I think we should play 4-4-2 at home dont mind 5 man midfield away and i would drop bryson he runs all day but he gives the ball away and his 1st touch is poor at times.We dominated the midfield against Leeds with hughes and hendrick in the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I disagree about Coutts, I think he's been one of our better players this season, wide right or when he's come inside. I suspect we'll see 451 more than 442 unless we're behind and chasing the game. Clough wants the team to get hold of the ball and pass it which 451 suits. To make it work we need to play better than Friday and the central midfielders need to support Sammon better than they did on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSD Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I'm looking at a different angle, isn't everyone glad that for the first time in years we've got dilemma's regarding first team selection? Our top goalscorer is on the bench at the minute. Trying to decide who we'd drop from the central midfield area. Personally I'd drop Jeff. I don't think 4 5 1 is the way forward at home, maybe the odd time when we've got a big strong well drilled team, like Ull on friday. Hughes is wasted sitting back, he's far better driving forward and making things happen. Jeff's improved vastly but I'd drop him for Theo at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 last night a prime example... when we try to see out games at the end, spells when we tried it and lost almost every time. we dont have to play theo in a 4-4-2 we have tyson, its a more attacking formation where we perform better and win more, score more. 4-5-1 invites pressure, 4-4-2 puts the opposition under pressure. That's a very simplistic approach, and like just about every other simplistic approach, demonstrably wrong. If it was the case, then everyone would play 4-4-2 every time. Clearly if both teams play 4-4-2 then both teams would be under pressure all the time, which is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AucklandRam Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Every manager has favorite players who they always play. Jim Smith loved Darryl Powell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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