atherstoneram

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

A payment plan of any kind is of limited use without a significant reduction in the claim from HMRC.

If that's the case we are screwed as i see it but that is just my opinion of course.

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

Isn't that what I just said? I hope they can get more than 25% . But if not I hope they don't end up with nothing. £7 million plus even more importantly future lost future tax revenues from the club in perpetuity is an awful lot of money to kiss goodbye to. 

But players and backroom staff will find other teams so HMRC still get taxes going forward. Fans who won't buy season tickets anymore will spend their money on something else paying VAT so they still don't lose out

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

There is no benchmark. HMRC should aim to get what they can , but not end up with nothing.

Therefore the amount plays into HMRC hands as to setting a benchmark.

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

That sort of payment plan would not be acceptable to a commercial buyer I suspect. Finding £10 million from revenue over 2 years when you are in League One is not going to happen.

Then things change,if you want to enter into a payment plan with HMRC longer than 2 years then a minimum payment of 35% is required as a down payment.

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

 

But the admin team are acting for all the creditors including HMRC. So they have made a proposal of what they think is best for all creditors.  I do not see given the list of creditors that HMRC gains very much from saying , you cannot pay Joe's Electrics Contractors  anything until you have paid us in full.

No one loses more than HMRC if a deal is not struck.

 

The HMRC won't look at it that way, HMRC and the club (MM) may have had a payment plan in place which has not been honoured. If they were to accept 25% they lose 18million,if they don't accept that they lose the lot which is only another 7million 

5 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

With HMRC when it comes to payment plans it's - what have you spent the money on .  They will certainly pay attention to the fact that we did not have the covid 8 million pound assistance which effectively would reduce current liability down to 20 million and the fact that possibly a few million was lost on the gate in passing trade.  They won't be impressed we signed a management team on 4 million a year and committed to 13 million quid of future payments on players pre covid as it appears cash was rather tight.  My experience suggests we need to find around 18 million quid here with 40% up front and the remainder payable over 24 months. This plan will be monitored tighter than a gnats chuff and we can't default ideally.  Effectively, at the moment any cash paid towards tax is going against oldest debt and we are owing the most current liability.  That helps with interest but there will be plenty, so add that to any payment plan.   With the right buyer we'll be ok with that but it will be all servicing debt for 3 years and no players id were on League 1 money.  Not sure how much there telling Wayne but if we need to sell a player/s to make goodwill additional payments to creditors to reduce liability prior to agreement, that will happen.

I agree with most of that but are the administrators in a position to prove that had we received the 8 million MM would have used that to pay HMRC or to pay wages,saving his own money knowing that a winding up order couldn't be issued,we don't know if the debt to HMRC began to build up before the grounds closed. We also don't know what dialogue was taking place between HMRC and MM, even though a winding up order couldn't be issued i would imagine he would have been notified of the clubs debt growing and payments requested.

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

And how is that an advantage? How is killing a deal stone dead of benefit to Hmrc?

I wouldn't imagine HMRC will look at it that way,now being classed a preferential creditor gives HMRC a vote on what is on offer where as before they didn't get a say. They can say what percentage they will accept, if any.

Personally i think this is where the delay for a new owner is coming from ,,the administrators are probably finding it harder to come to a resolution with them as they have not had to include HMRC in any clubs in administration before.

21 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

In this case there is no real advantage to them in being preferential creditor. Msd and football creditors still rank ahead of them.

That's where the rules have changed,football creditors and MSD may still be above HMRC but if HMRC says the percentage on offer is not enough or they hold out for the full amount then that kills the offer stone dead.

Match abandoned at halftime with us leading 2 - 0 waterlogged pitch with the tears from Mr Pop

1 hour ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

I will still go if the price is right.

Whose next in contestants row.

@Dean (hick) Saunders come on down

3 hours ago, Crewton said:

Why don't you ask me what I think, instead of presuming? 

FWIW, I've no idea what the attitude of any player will be if there's interest from other clubs, but clearly their value to DCFC depends on length of contract remaining, their attitude towards remaining at the club and the level of competition for their signature. A new owner may be able to convince them to stick around, but I don't expect illogical loyalty from any of them, even though deserting a sinking ship isn't the noblest of actions. Any that do show such loyalty will have my undying admiration. 

Sorry, i wasn't presuming and yes i could have worded it better but i don't think anyone would blame them leaving to advance their careers if the opportunities arose. 

37 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Rather than help pay the debt off, the extra income is more likely to help keep us going and is why, although we may not like these awkward kick off times and days, for the time being we should put up with it rather than sing derogatory songs about Sky. 

Should just about pay for the administrators for a week or so.

2 hours ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Yes he does have a very nice house in Sandbanks and I understand what you are saying but we are talking about if he still has significant millions (cash or readily disposable assets) for the club. I'm doubtful. 

If i saw him selling the Big Issue i still wouldn't believe he is skint.

7 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Not not at all you are not one of them 

Then many apologies and i hope things are going well.

14 hours ago, Crewton said:

There's a benefit to a prospective buyer who completes in January : no fire sale, extend contracts of valued youngsters and suddenly a squad valued at £10m top whack becomes potentially worth 4-5 times that.

I hope at least one of the interested parties is thinking creatively. 

So you think the youngsters,who everyone is lauding over and saying what exciting players they are,eg. Bird,Knight and a couple of others will want to drop down a league. Other clubs in the Championship and possibly the PL will show an interest and they will be off and who could blame them.

2 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Couple of posters ( on ignore ) only seem to post on this thread , usually repeating their opinion as fact despite being corrected ad nauseam. Never ever see them post on match day threads or any other club or player threads. 
i really do wonder what they get out of it and why ? 

I guess that's directed at me,why would i need to post on a matchday thread,nobody wants to know how i feel about the match or how well we have or haven't played. I can't see the point in saying Lawrence (or any other player of your choice) has had a good game then the next week saying he is the devil in disguise because he missed a sitter. I post on here because i don't want to see the club go under,i am not being negative just realistic. If that doesn't fit in with your way of thinking there is nothing i can do about that.

3 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

£10 million over time. It wouldn’t be all up front . 

If that were to happen i would imagine the admins would want 100% payment.

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

It is just cash flow I think. And until a buyer is found.

I hope so,i know you think i am not a fan but i have been a fan for 40 odd years and never again did i imagine the club would find itself in this situation. I just think coming out of administration nowdays is not as simple as it used to be.

Just now, PistoldPete said:

 Maybe something. Maybe not.

Maybe more than the 25% which people keep on about. Depends how much the players sold for.

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So you think admin team should have let the club go pop? Breach the players contracts and let them all leave for free?

No not at all ,but administrators are brought in to make a business a going concern. if they can't do that without securing additional funding (albeit short term) then the business is not viable

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

MSD has first charge , then I think its football cerditors and then HMRC. Someone correct me if I am wrong. In which case even if we sold our entire playing staff HMRC will only get anything at all if a buyer is found who is willing to pay something more in.

If we sell all our playing staff HMRC collect 20% in VAT on all sales so they would still get something.

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

So in that case HMRC gets nothing. So it needs to do a deal. Same as other creditors.   

Since the administrators have been in place they have had to take loans out to keep the club going,that won't have gone unnoticed by HMRC.

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Well the Government  not only let the club get into that much debt but actually created the debt in the first place by closing the  stadium to fans. 

There are no new owners. They wlll only become liable for debts if they agree to take them on. 

        

And what happens if they don't,the club can't be kept on as a going concern as it would be trading whilst insolvent

2 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Maybe Rishi Sunak is not aware but i'll guarantee there will be a Senior HMRC advisor aware or even at the table with Admin, Football is seen as an anathema to HMRC where time after time they put in winding up orders of football clubs only for a judge to throw it out.

I'm confident we'll be sold, HMRC will accept a deal, And DCFC will move on...albeit in League 1.

Judges did indeed used to throw winding up orders out or to put it correctly didn't find in HMRC's favour, however now that new laws have been introduced that means HMRC have moved up the pecking order they will have a bigger say in what happens. We are the First club to go into administration since the new laws came in,do you really think they are going to roll over?

1 hour ago, Kathcairns said:

Arn't theHMRC partly to blame for letting the club get into that much debt in the first place.

The HMRC didn't let the club get into that much debt in the 1st place, PAYE etc was stull expected to be paid as and when due,all it did was suspend winding up orders until the end of September,a week or so after we went into administration,i wonder why?

Perhaps there was a payment plan in place and the club reneged on it,we don't know. If that proves to be the case then they won't enter into another repayment plan.

As for new owners not being liable for the outstanding debt,that is not true,the debt is against the club not the owner(s)