CongletonRam

23 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Consistently not doing much for most of the match.

and maybe difficult to drop being captain.

I try to avoid judging PW on the business of wage expenditure. So what if we're the 3rd biggest salary in this league. It doesn't guarantee anything.

A club the size of Derby will always have a significantly higher wage bill than other clubs around in League One as we are a higher status football club and the wage bill is reflected in this. Derby is a bigger enterprise, more staff and way more overheads.

Factoring this has to knock a pretty significant amount of a considered wage bill when comparing it to other clubs who have spent money this season.

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What do you think we'll be left with after Warne goes if it's later rather than sooner?

Do you think the squad that Warne is assembling will allow the next manager to carry on in a successful manner?

This is the point some of the Derby fans are making. Not change for changes sake, but change because we don't appear to be going down the right track currently with our football and our recruitment.

I would say that sitting comfortably with a game in hand in the top half of the table is proof that the manager is actually doing something right, especially when you consider he has had to put together an entire new squad on a budget (and I know the claims that our budget is greater than others although I don't necessarily believe that when other clubs are shelling out big fees). Granted out football is not easy on the eye, but aside from the team being a few points/places higher, what more could he do?

It's all well and good identifying a player that can improve the squad. I dare say that same player will have a host of bigger and better clubs knocking on his door. Warne has put together a squad with a match of players he had identified, the majority of whom (reading between the lines of his interviews), were not first choice. I'm not going to berate the manager for bringing in the likes of Washington, Nelson and the like as they were in all likelihood, the scraps with which he was left with.

Derby County may seem like a big draw for us fans, but for the players, they will look at our recent turbulent history and it wouldn't be difficult to find more appealing clubs, even if those clubs are not maybe the same size and stature of DCFC.

Play-offs would represent a successful season IMO all things considered. That will clearly not be good enough for some fans, particularly those who are of the opinion that we have some divine right to be playing at a higher level due to our size, but I think it will be OK in the eyes of the decision maker/s.

34 minutes ago, Eddie said:

One more victory at Wembley - even in a Mickey Mouse tournament - will do.

Only seen Derby in a cup at Wembley once must be 30 years ago in the Anglo Italian defeat.

Could happen this season though.

Without wanting to discuss the current manager and players, where could you see the club in 5 years time maybe longer?

In 5 years time, I would hope we have become a side challenging for play offs in the Championship; but more realistically, I can see us being a mid-table Champ club for some time.

Longer term; I wish beyond belief that I can see my club sitting in the top half of the Premiership as an established club; but the pessimistic side of me (which only seems to come out when I start thinking Derby County) tells me that is slowly becoming a pipe dream.

On 09/10/2023 at 08:49, BaianoPOTY98 said:

For what it’s worth I agree 100% that verbal abuse is not ok. Warne does seem a genuine nice guy and I do think he’s trying his best, I just don’t think his best at this football club is good enough, I hope I’m wrong and we go on to see him start winning games consistently, but have my doubts😟

I think everyone has their doubts mate. It's just some have more doubt than others from what I read.

50 minutes ago, europia said:

Indeed. Not to mention the dire Pappy John Pizza Trophy Cup Kick About .....or whatever it's called. 

You know, I'd honestly forgotten about that utter nonsense of a trophy.

As much as folks say you shouldn't field a weakened side in cups; I'd be happy to see the back of that one.

2 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Haven't these all spent the majority of their careers in league one or below? Which of course must mean that they arent good enough for promotion.

I don't think anyone has suggested that in this thread. I think you're being a little mischievous here.

3 minutes ago, sage said:

Would you swap Oxford's squad for ours?

How many of their players would get in our team? 2? 3?

That question can only be answered by someone who has watched Oxford at length this season and studied what every player has to offer in their individual position, then compared them to our squad.

Maybe you have done that...have you?

31 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What extenuating circumstances when we have a 'top 3' budget? We could have added to the squad last season but Warne prefers a small squad. He has added 12 players this summer. What else could he have done? The buck stops at his desk. He's been here long enough, we are no better now than when he took over. How many more years will it take him?!

Is that what Warne is to be judged upon?

He has a top 3 budget, so failure to challenge for a top 2 position is deserving of the sack?

I am also not in the camp that we are no better now than when we were when he took over.

41 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

How many people are saying "we're a shoe in for promotion"? Very few.

There are two main streams of displeasure.
1. Style of play often resulting in an inability to pass the ball to a team mate
2. League position being some way off challenging for automatic promotion. We're only 11 games in, but already 9 points off 2nd spot. Many would argue this isn't challenging for automatics.

One man is ultimately responsible for the first topic. He's the one who coaches the team and instructs them how to play on matchday. That criticism is therefore perfectly valid if those supporters do not enjoy the football on display.

When comparing a side to determine if they're overperforming or underperforming, budget vs league position is one of the main metrics. When looking at historic wage expenditure of clubs in this division, rumoured fees paid for players in the summer, etc.. it's very obvious that we have a 'top 3' budget. Since we're currently 9th in the table (7th on ppg), we're underperforming. People may disagree over the reason, but it still ultimately falls back on Warne.
- Some say Warne isn't getting the most out of this squad due to tactics, player selection, etc... = Warne at fault
- You say the players aren't good enough. Therefore, either of the following are the reason:
      - The recruitment team, which Warne helped to assemble, isn't identifying good enough players
      - Warne didn't choose the right players in the summer window
      - Warne couldn't convince the right players to join

Agree with all you have said in bold.

But, I will say again, there are extenuating circumstances which I factor in which I think are important. I have already been through these in this thread.

Regarding the first part, those 'very few' certainly gave the most to say on this forum recently. It appears that those 'very few' think this squad should be contending for the 2 top spots and for the umpteenth time of trying to explain my comments, I am of the opinion that looking at the squad, that isn't necessarily realistic. Possible, but certainly not a given as some want to suggest by wanting the removal of the manager for the failure to be further up the league table and not looking like having a team that is capable of challenging.

I'm happy with things at the club in general, although I am the first to admit that the playing style is turgid and one of the worst I have seen at the club for some time, but I go back to those extenuating circumtances.

I just want to get behind the manager, get behind the players, and see where this season takes us. If we challenge at the top, hats off to the management!! If we are in the play-offs, great, that'll do me. If we narrowly miss out however, not the end of the world. Let's see where we are at the end of the season in terms of looking more like a team to go next season with a few more additions.

36 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said:

Yes it seems to really annoy you that some people think the manager is bang average.  It's ok for you to have the same low opinion of the 22 or so players we have though.  

And this is what is wrong with expressing opinion on the net.

Nothing wrong with thinking the manager is bang average, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but it is all I was reading on this forum. Warne out, Warne out. Clueless. Tactically inept. on and on and on. That is what I find annoying, the lack of balance.

I am trying to suggest, with my take on the stats, that the players are not necessarily players who will put the team in automatic promotion. That is not me saying I have a low opinion of them. They are all good professionals, but maybe not quite of the ability that many suggest.

33 minutes ago, RodleyRam said:

Our squad should be good enough for top six. The 'stats' used by the OP to suggest otherwise are a tad misleading IMO.

I don't think we have the players to play PW's preferred formation personally and I'm not 100% convinced the tactics or style of play has always got the best out of the players consistently (yet). Despite that, win our game in hand and we are 4th, which would prove my view that the squad is more than capable of finishing top 6. If we can get the best out of them individually and collectively then we could/should challenge autos.

I'm not basing this on in-depth statistical analysis, just based on what I observe and assessment of the qualities of the squad overall. As it stands, we are about where I expect us to be.

I wasn't trying to say that our squad isn't necessarily top 6. On the contrary, I think we are certainly top 6, top 7. The point I am trying to make is that I don't believe the squad is a shoe in for promotion as many fans seem to think we are, thus berating the manager for his lack of ability to get what they perceive to be his inability to get more out of it.

I started the thread as my annoyance was building with so many disgruntled posters.

I totally agree with all of what you have said and fully concur.

What the documentary did show was just how incredibly hard he worked at improving his game as a kid. Absolutely no other interests outside of football whatsoever and a sheer bloody mindedness to make it in the game.

I admire the guy now more than ever, and the same goes for his wife, Victoria.

The documentary left no stone unturned. Even the alleged affair, which Beckham neither admitted nor denied. My take on that was that it was purely press tittle tattle and Beckham didn't want to deny it, as he shouldn't have to and had he done, in some ways would have sunk to their level.

Gary Neville also came out of it well, admitting that his career wouldn't have been what it was if not for Becks.

It's a must watch for any Utd fan.

3 minutes ago, Chellaston Ram said:

Please both of you kiss and make up 😀

I am cool with him mate. He just keeps on asking me about when my first game that I attended was. I don't understand his (if that is his preferred pronoun) wanting to know this information. It has nothing to do with the topic in hand.

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Transfer fees paid for the players who have scored more league goals than Waghorn so far this season:

Devante Cole - Free
Colby Bishop - £500k
Jamie Reid - Nominal
Jordan Rhodes - Loan
Dion Charles - £300k
Alfie May - £250k

It's a good job you didn't do that for the past 3 seasons. You'd have to mention about every single transfer in the entire football league.

7 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Obviously not, or she wouldn’t be your wife.

So, what is with all of the questions?

1 minute ago, hintonsboots said:

Syntax is irrelevant in this case, if you are unable to answer the question. I’ll make it easier for you. When did you attend your first Forest game ?

What is with all of the questions?

Is this some form of membership initiation? 🤨

I don't think my wife has asks as many questions as you do.

4 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

So your first visit to Pride Park or the BBG ? That must be a heartwarming memory for you ?

Past perfect: That must have been a heartwarming memory for you?

Just a quick English lesson for you.

Factoring in that in the very recent past we have been within hours of going out of existence, are functioning with an owner that has absolutely no experience whatsoever and had to build a team/squad in its entirety; I still maintain that the possibility of enduring another season in League One would not be as bad or as embarrassing as the 11 point haul in 2007/2008.

Having said that, let's hope this debate is a mute point. We are playing with little quality or self belief and despite that, are sitting pretty with a game in hand which would put us in the play-offs.

Now these fans that are calling for the managers head and are demanding an automatic place, would you accept finishing in the play-offs and winning promotion that way?

The rhetoric coming from PW suggests he is feeling the pressure. I'm not convinced he will be winning any friends amongst the playing staff claiming that not one of them is playing to their potential. My staff would not be happy if I went public on them all citing their inadequacy.

Just now, oodledoodle said:

And Wash and TJJ. But apart from those three he signed, I agree.

He actually stated he wanted a main striker after he had added Wash.

19 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

In a world where Luton have done it this statement is absolutely bonkers.

I also think that is a little like a Bournemouth or a Palace fan berating others who are saying that they cannot realistically win the Premiership citing the fact that Leicester won it against the odds.

Luton going up was a one off. I don't think it is right to judge expectation by one offs. It in not fair on the management.

3 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

The real question is why we haven't been able to recruit for a squad that is a serious contender for top 2.

Feels like an opportunity missed, but its ok because we're an open and honest club nowadays with a nice manager.

I think PW was frustrated in the transfer market. He made it clear he wanted a striker and that wasn't forthcoming albeit we ended up bringing in Waggy.

4 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

In a world where Luton have done it this statement is absolutely bonkers.

If my neighbor won the pools, it doesn't mean that it's realistic to expect it to happen to me.

It's becoming more and more difficult to reach the Premier League. As things stand, we are a million miles away from it even being a consideration. Granted, there are fairy-tales and that is what Luton Town are.

One if the problems that I see with many of the fans is unrealistic expectations. This season, pressure is being placed by a minority of fans who feel that we should be challenging in the top 2. Now while there is no reason we shouldn't, there is no reason, with the current squad, that we should. A top 2 place would be great, but IMO we shouldn't be berating the management for not sitting in those automatic places.

1 minute ago, hintonsboots said:

Lol. I find you very amusing. Keep it up.

As I do you. It's heartwarming.