Ghost of Clough Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Why, is it better to say finish 2nd one season with 80 points, and the next get 82 points and finish third? Because finishing second gets you promoted, and then finishing third in the prem would be much better 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Wage bill is down compared to 2 seasons ago - can you realistically expect Jenson Button/Lewis Hamilton or any other top F1 driver winning the championship in a Sauber/Force India car? No. Still dont make it progress in where we have finished though does it, unless the league table is now based upon wage bills. Yes we have made progress off the field but on we haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I think personally points as the points we have amassed this season has prevented us looking over our shoulders. Position is relative in this division. At the end of the season there will be about 6-8 teams all within 3 points of each other. We could then look at a game here and there where we dropped points which cost us a higher position. (Peterbrough is a prime example, Cardiff by all accounts we had the better of the game but could not score, Boro last Saturday theres 3pts minimum if we drew all of them). It depends on your point of view. For me I have taken heart and it is the same argument under a different thread that a young squad/team has gained valuable experience in the Championship without having to face a relegation battle. I am just hoping to see the progress continue next season. PS. If you think you will see good football in the Euros I think you will be disappointed I can't remember the last International game which was entertaining. I dont understand what you mean that position is relative in this division, yes we are not getting relegated but we didnt either two years ago, still dont take away from the fact that we are 14th, compared to 14th 2 years ago. Im sure every team in this league could look at where they have dropped points, and Im sure a few would look at thier game against Derby as one of them, at the end of the day the league is over 46 games, you finish where you deserve to finish, so again tell me where the progress is in terms of where we are likely to finish in this league ? PS Last time I went to in euro's, we stuffed Croatia, great game, the one against France was also good even though we lost. The game against Portugal in the QF was also a thriller IMO, where we would have won if not for the ref. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Still dont make it progress in where we have finished though does it, unless the league table is now based upon wage bills. Yes we have made progress off the field but on we haven't. Every circumstance has to be taken into account though. A builder cannot build without his tools. Just like a football club cannot improve fast without money (However, they are always exceptions to the rule). We have a reducing pot of money, yet the team has just achieved the most points we have had since coming down from the Prem (and maybe League position). I don't believe we can take position into account as the Championship is so tight - If we had won just 3 more games this season we would have 69 points in 7th. If one of those wins was against Cardiff we would be sitting in the playoff spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Every circumstance has to be taken into account though. A builder cannot build without his tools. Just like a football club cannot improve fast without money (However, they are always exceptions to the rule). We have a reducing pot of money, yet the team has just achieved the most points we have had since coming down from the Prem (and maybe League position). I don't believe we can take position into account as the Championship is so tight - If we had won just 3 more games this season we would have 69 points in 7th. If one of those wins was against Cardiff we would be sitting in the playoff spots. And if I had picked the winning lottery numbers last night I would be a millionaire, but alas I didnt. Derby were the 14th best team in the league 2 years ago, and they are still the 14th best team in this league, no, ifs, maybes and buts, those are the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 And if I had picked the winning lottery numbers last night I would be a millionaire, but alas I didnt. Derby were the 14th best team in the league 2 years ago, and they are still the 14th best team in this league, no, ifs, maybes and buts, those are the facts. You fail to remember until Clough came in we were looking at relegation battle under Clough. The reason we came 14th was down to the last couple of games especially against Cardiff who I think did not play 6 or 7 of their first team players in that game. This season although 14th at present we had 6pts more than that season already and we have never been in a relegation battle throughout the season. The season you are talking about I think we had 1pt after 6 games under Jewell and looked like we plumetting down to league 1 and were supporting all the other teams in the league. So yes we are 14th now but depending on your view 6pts better off than 2yrs ago with no relegation threat for the season shows improvement in my eyes. If not in yours thats your opinion just that some don't agree with it me included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRam Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 And if I had picked the winning lottery numbers last night I would be a millionaire, but alas I didnt. Derby were the 14th best team in the league 2 years ago, and they are still the 14th best team in this league, no, ifs, maybes and buts, those are the facts. Your thinking is too linear. If we went on a spending spree like Leicester did, spent millions and finished 13th - I bet you would be the first on hear moaning about how much money we have spent and the little progression we have made. By your way of thinking you should be praising the team for improving one place after the amounts that got spent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 You fail to remember until Clough came in we were looking at relegation battle under Clough. The reason we came 14th was down to the last couple of games especially against Cardiff who I think did not play 6 or 7 of their first team players in that game. This season although 14th at present we had 6pts more than that season already and we have never been in a relegation battle throughout the season. The season you are talking about I think we had 1pt after 6 games under Jewell and looked like we plumetting down to league 1 and were supporting all the other teams in the league. So yes we are 14th now but depending on your view 6pts better off than 2yrs ago with no relegation threat for the season shows improvement in my eyes. If not in yours thats your opinion just that some don't agree with it me included When we finished 14th Jewell had long gone it was the season after,,Clough's first full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 6 points better off is hardly a cause for major celebration.. Especially given that 'that season' under NC was dreadful anyway Those 6 points can be put down to us doing the double over Forest rather than then doing the double over us.. Off the field and from an outlooking perspective everything does look better.. Younger squad, good use of academy, lower wage bill etc.. But this really will only count if we push on and look for the playoffs.. The worst thing that could happen is if next season we end up getting less than 60 points and then we can all start to question where we're going.. That said, what if next season we finish on 57 points but we finish 11th? Is that progress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Your thinking is too linear. If we went on a spending spree like Leicester did, spent millions and finished 13th - I bet you would be the first on hear moaning about how much money we have spent and the little progression we have made. By your way of thinking you should be praising the team for improving one place after the amounts that got spent? Not really, I would have said there was no improvement with millions spent, as opposed to no improvement whilst cost cutting. I am not saying Clough has done a good, bad or indifferent job, I am just saying that since his first season in charge to his last, we have not improved in the league table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Clough has done nowt, Brian McDermott makes him look amateur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 You fail to remember until Clough came in we were looking at relegation battle under Clough. The reason we came 14th was down to the last couple of games especially against Cardiff who I think did not play 6 or 7 of their first team players in that game. This season although 14th at present we had 6pts more than that season already and we have never been in a relegation battle throughout the season. The season you are talking about I think we had 1pt after 6 games under Jewell and looked like we plumetting down to league 1 and were supporting all the other teams in the league. So yes we are 14th now but depending on your view 6pts better off than 2yrs ago with no relegation threat for the season shows improvement in my eyes. If not in yours thats your opinion just that some don't agree with it me included I am talking about his first full season in charge as opposed to his this season in charge, we finished 14 points off the play offs, as opposed to 11 that we are this season, and the same teams occupied 13-15th, Derby, Ipswich and Watford in both seasons. Also in Cloughs first full season, Reading had 63 points, now that is progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Pretend I am from sky If I ring you and say you can have the exact same contract as last year but it will cost you a tenner less, Yes or No would you see that as an improvement! The same principle applies to derby, its just as soon as they stop building for the future then it will start to fail! Surely even behind all the spin and maybe false hope you can see what the club are trying to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Clough has done nowt, Brian McDermott makes him look amateur McDermott has done very well this year. Interesting that many folks said he was for the chop at Christmas. Reading had around the same points as we did at that time. They've done brilliantly since February. As for "Clough has done nowt", well ..if you really believe that, I suspect you're not taking everything into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Pretend I am from sky If I ring you and say you can have the exact same contract as last year but it will cost you a tenner less, Yes or No would you see that as an improvement! The same principle applies to derby, its just as soon as they stop building for the future then it will start to fail! Surely even behind all the spin and maybe false hope you can see what the club are trying to do I dont understand your point, I could go into the pub tonight and pay 20p less for a pint, but it would still be the same pint as I bought yesterday, the same that the sky programmes would be the same as yesterday, and the same that Derby are currently 14th, the same as 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 position over points any day... it shows how good you are in comparison to the other teams, whilst points are just points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 yes exactly so its an improvement, even if they are in the same position with less resources!! the same way you would be happy that you are getting the same for less money! do you honestly think that derby are not in a better overall position than 2 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 yes exactly so its an improvement, even if they are in the same position with less resources!! the same way you would be happy that you are getting the same for less money! do you honestly think that derby are not in a better overall position than 2 years ago? By your logic Arsenal have been improving for the past 6 years then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I would say that arsenal have a different set of goals to derby, but on principle yes, thats if there goal was to become a stable club and start building again, but I would be quite surprised if it was...... it was obvious that drastic action was needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 yes exactly so its an improvement, even if they are in the same position with less resources!! the same way you would be happy that you are getting the same for less money! do you honestly think that derby are not in a better overall position than 2 years ago? yes exactly so its an improvement, even if they are in the same position with less resources!! the same way you would be happy that you are getting the same for less money! do you honestly think that derby are not in a better overall position than 2 years ago? Do you honestly think we are better on the field ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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