Catch 23 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hello all. I've been signed up to this forum for a few months, but have been what some of you refer to as a 'lurker'. It is only after going down to Southampton for yesterday's game (went down with a Saints supporting mate who sat in the opposite end...you can imagine the car trip home!) and after reading some of the comments on here that I felt like sharing some thoughts of mine. Sorry if it is a bit long-winded, you may get bored halfway through! I, like most people on this board, am in favour of the board's sustainability drive, and am appalled at the desperate recklessness of teams like West Ham in gambling for promotion. I am pro-Clough, but am not (what some of you refer to, rather disparagingly, as) a 'happy clapper'. What does frustrate me right now is the lack of consistency. We go on brilliant runs but also go through turgid spells of really poor football. It seems to me, and I think most of us agree on this, that the current squad is potentially a strong team of good young players that have perhaps been punching above their weight for periods of the season, and so a mid-table spot is a good achievement. The team is, however, very much a work in progress, and this much seems clear to me. We are, of course, still a few quality players off pushing for promotion from this division. I, like most sane people on here, knew that we would neither go up or down this season (as is being proved the case), and were looking for a mid-table position and some good football, which I guess has been achieved at fleeting points. Although I generally like Cloughie, he does frustrate with some odd tactics and his refusal to use loans when right now, we could do with a shot in the arm. On to yesterday's game, and I felt it was a very good marker for where we are at this moment in time. Saints are, as we all know, a far superior outfit with quality across the board (something I can't really say for us). We were dreadful in the first half hour, and Bailey in particular was rubbish, but for the rest of the time we showed some OK spells of passing and movement (inbetween weathering some rather heavy storms). I noted three problem areas that I feel we need to address: Defending: the defence didn't do too badly yesterday, apart from the goals (although you can say if our defence was that good, we wouldn't have conceded four goals, so swings and roundabouts, I guess). Roberts was solid throughout and Fielding made some top saves, but the first two goals were really sloppily defended, and we didn't exactly cover ourselves with glory with the other two either (albeit with two terrific finishes from Lallana and Lee). Going forward: I thought that we were able to run at their defence and counter-attack fairly well at points, but the problem for me was that our movement in the final third was too predictable, and they were able to prevent any danger. Although some said Steve Davies could be our 20-goal a season striker if he stayed fit, he has been out for three months and was anonymous yesterday. Robinson and Tyson are both pacy strikers who are not going to score too many goals, and Callum Ball is still only 19, but has a decent future with us if all goes well. We need a proper striker who we can count to get into the right positions, will be fit for at least 75% of the season, and can put the ball in the net. I can only suggest unlikely candidates or unknown entities for this, but (as a long shot) perhaps Sam Baldock on loan from West Ham? A quality young player who is only really warming up their bench, and will only get frustrated now they've bought about 17 strikers in January. Wages may be an issue, but maybe we could tempt him with the possibility of regular football? The big problem for me, however, was how lightweight our midfield was. The third goal exemplified this, the way their quality possession and movement just carved us open. It really was like a knife through butter. Although Bailey, Hendrick and Carroll are all good players, we miss someone that can put a tackle in and control the game. Part of me was hoping that we would give Miles Addison a go, perhaps he could provide a bit of grit in that area, or perhaps we just missed Craig Bryson in the centre. Otherwise, I don't know, Tonge? Eustace? Oakley? I am interested in hearing people's suggestions. I know a lot of people would refer to yesterday's performance using a number of rather colourful words, and it was on the whole mediocre (to put it rather generously). Regarding the future direction of this club, all I hope is that the fans give it a little more time (and well done, by the way, to the many Rams fans who made the trip down- I did think it would be about five of us!), that the management identify the areas we need to improve, and the board pull their fingers out. Although form such as this is alarming, I feel that we could still nick into the top half, and if we keep most of this team intact, and with a few quality additions, in a few months time we'll be better and more experienced in dealing with quality teams like Southampton. Will be interesting to hear your thoughts, chaps (and chappettes). Try not to dismiss my opinions, because that's what they are, and as valid as yours. So there 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 good points mate- the quality additions need to come and seem to be the main sticking point for many fans. unfortunately I am now sliding into that camp myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabber Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I think we all (Cloughie included) know what we need, but will he have to go shopping from just the sales rack again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimacked Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Decent points made. Sounds like we had a really decent turnout. Always hard to see the bigger picture when your team gets taken apart. Worth mentioning that the Saints are much more experienced than us and had too much quality. They built their foundations by signing quality youngsters like Lallana and giving them game time last time they were in the championship and then built them up as players in Division 1. They also kept hold of some of their older heads and Atkins has been free to sign quality players like Cork from Chelsea Sharpe from Donny and added some international flair like Lee and some others. They are lucky to have ambitious owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 And sold a few youngsters for multi-millions of pounds. How much have they spent compared to sales? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The key is what backing Clough will get in terms of transfer and wages budget. Can he bring in the quality he knows we need or will he be relying on Bosmans, unproven players and youngsters again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Do people really think we are of 3 players away from the top teams? Our squad and team is not close in terms of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimacked Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Think Bennett and Hughes are being protected abit by the club. They both did well for the England U17s only the other week. Bennett doesent take his GCSEs until summer 2013. People forget how young he is. Some U16 players look amazing at U16 level but find the step up to the U18s alot harder than they expected. This seems to have happened with Aaron Cole. He was so highly rated when playing with the U16s. Now he is on loan at Stockport. Probably set to be released in the summer. Back to the thread. Noticed Peterborough had 19 shots on goal as they demolished Brizzle on Saturday. Their oldest player was their goalie at 25 I think. Ferguson is learning the game fast. They have found a little niche in the Championship by offering ex Prem Academy graduates a chance to shine in the Championship. Another club with a very young average age squad is Hull. About half the Hull line up are ex Man U or on loan from there. Hull have some feeder club deal with Man U where they loan their youngsters and those that do well but are not wanted by Man U they end up signing for small fees on Permanent deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyJumper Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not that surprised by the erratic form. I'm convinced that it's a result of such a young and inexperienced team. I'm also convinced that the more experienced the young players get the more consistent the performances will become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inglorious02 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If your talking about the calibre of player needed to get a club promoted, then almost all of the squad are not good enough. Clough repeatedly brings in average players that will make us mid table championship at best. Gareth Roberts? Sturdy but so average. Callum Ball; he's no future Wayne Rooney is he? Jeff Hendrick and James Bailey - mid table championship players. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayram Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 We are miles away from being able to compete with the top six in this division. On 'therams.co.uk' today Clough talks about finding a striker 'in our price range'. What does that mean? Another 'young hungry' player? In reality it means another low rent signing who will do nothing to change the general drift of this club towards mediocrity. We will never get promoted under GSE so prepare to spend the next few years on the rollercoaster to nowhere folks - thats the future for Derby County FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If your talking about the calibre of player needed to get a club promoted, then almost all of the squad are not good enough. Clough repeatedly brings in average players that will make us mid table championship at best. Gareth Roberts? Sturdy but so average. Callum Ball; he's no future Wayne Rooney is he? Jeff Hendrick and James Bailey - mid table championship players. And so on. I think Catch 23 has made some really good points. I don't disagree about some of Clough's signings being average either. However, we're paying average wages and average transfer fees so that's the market we're in unless additional finance is provided. Presumably, Hendrick, Ball, Hughes, Bennett came cheap. If they are any good, they will be lured away by the dosh on offer from richer Clubs. It's a tough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 23 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 It's an interesting point about having younger players from Prem teams, although usually when we've tried that they've turned out to be rubbish (Sunu) or pretty ineffectual (Noble), although you could exclude Fielding one or two others from that. I think this is what we are trying with Tom Carroll, who is a highly rated lad in the Spurs Academy. Although he has not pulled up too many trees yet, he still has time to prove his worth, but at the same time it perhaps is not worth disrupting the team to try and shoehorn him in somehow. emjlc02, I would say it's more like five or six (perhaps even seven) players, although that is of course dependent on whether Clough will have the funds. Regarding his previous transfers, well anyone can provide examples to suit their argument, but for every Brayford or Bailey, there's a Croft or Hendrie. On the way back from Southampton, I was thinking that we need to strengthen in the following areas: 20 a goal striker (See my original post) Defensive Midfield general (Original post) A couple of creative midfielders (I think this much is obvious to most, and the situation with Maguire is annoying, although I think (or possibly hope) that he will eventually be given his chance. Perhaps we could sign Carroll on a permanent basis if he proves himself, or Marc Pugh, as Clough was apparently eyeing him in January. I reckon this is the area in which we could bring in some foreign class- perhaps a more consistent Alberto Bueno?) Left Back Cover (on the topic of Prem loans, how about Ezekiel Fryers from Man Utd- he's apparently stalled over a new contract- haven't seen him play myself, but we could tempt him with the prospect of regular football- if he isn't rubbish, that is!) Replacement for Paul Green (although it depends on what happens with that one) Like I say, this depends on whether the board backs Nigel in getting the players he wants, so it sounds perhaps a little optimistic, but never mind. It is true, though, that we could fill these positions without breaking the bank, but we are all hoping for that one marquee signing, whether we will get that is another thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It's an interesting point about having younger players from Prem teams, although usually when we've tried that they've turned out to be rubbish (Sunu) or pretty ineffectual (Noble), although you could exclude Fielding one or two others from that. I think this is what we are trying with Tom Carroll, who is a highly rated lad in the Spurs Academy. Although he has not pulled up too many trees yet, he still has time to prove his worth, but at the same time it perhaps is not worth disrupting the team to try and shoehorn him in somehow. emjlc02, I would say it's more like five or six (perhaps even seven) players, although that is of course dependent on whether Clough will have the funds. Regarding his previous transfers, well anyone can provide examples to suit their argument, but for every Brayford or Bailey, there's a Croft or Hendrie. On the way back from Southampton, I was thinking that we need to strengthen in the following areas: 20 a goal striker (See my original post) Defensive Midfield general (Original post) A couple of creative midfielders (I think this much is obvious to most, and the situation with Maguire is annoying, although I think (or possibly hope) that he will eventually be given his chance. Perhaps we could sign Carroll on a permanent basis if he proves himself, or Marc Pugh, as Clough was apparently eyeing him in January. I reckon this is the area in which we could bring in some foreign class- perhaps a more consistent Alberto Bueno?) Left Back Cover (on the topic of Prem loans, how about Ezekiel Fryers from Man Utd- he's apparently stalled over a new contract- haven't seen him play myself, but we could tempt him with the prospect of regular football- if he isn't rubbish, that is!) Replacement for Paul Green (although it depends on what happens with that one) Like I say, this depends on whether the board backs Nigel in getting the players he wants, so it sounds perhaps a little optimistic, but never mind. It is true, though, that we could fill these positions without breaking the bank, but we are all hoping for that one marquee signing, whether we will get that is another thing. While i agree with most of what you say,in both posts,(most of which has been discussed and discussed,not ur fault being a newbie if you dont know that) but when it comes to suggestions of new players,sadly one seems to have to bear in mind where the players is coming from,because it seems they have to be either cheap or free preferably and willing to play for our club with its reletavely low wage cap. Ezekiel Fryers, is a great prospect,already capped for England U16/17/19's and has played for Mu 1st team and is a rising star,very versatile,think Smalling........ he wont be coming 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Marc Pugh, plays at Bournemouth who are now looking upwards since their aquisition by the russian millionaire, whilst he was linked with us i believe he's got a new 3yr contract on the table ....... ?? So we'll see, but sadly,while our board seem prudent, they dont seem to want to buy players that cost more than lets say 1m, hence,'our accademy is the future' comments. But i'd love to see Ezekiel Fryers come 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I don't think that they want to spend anywhere near 1 million. If they did then I think that most fans would be content with acoupl of million pound signings. The flipside (and the hope that I am desperately clinging to) is that they are playing down the spending power and their intentions in order to stop prices being inflated when we are shopping in the summer. I am probably deluded but its amazing how 1 mil playes become 1.5-2mil when the selling club gets a whiff of green, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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