Who's good enough?

[Perky1106]

It gives me the shivers just imagining another Premiership season. We'd get torn apart, not as badly as last time because I think we're more capable of getting the odd goal but it would be another horrible year.

[Asanovic]

OK. "Useless" isn't the right word in this case.

I meant they are talentless, average, boring e.t.c.

Again, not talentless. That is factually inaccurate.

Average might be fair. Not sure what you're problem is with the current team.

[NothernRam]

Average might be fair. Not sure what you're problem is with the current team.

They are just boring.

Can't see who from this current team can play and score like this.

Some absolutely brilliant team and individual goals.

Goal #6 is my all time favorite. Stunning.

Jones scored some crackers too but it's not in this 10.

I won't even talk about Burley's time. About Idiakez, Smith e.t.c.

[EastKentRam]

...except for the last four matches, which we appear to have won.

If you read my post, i was talking about our away games.

[EastKentRam]

We played well at Blackpool, forest, large parts of the Peterborough game amongst a few others - and to be honest, winning away is so much more important than playing well away.

We didn't play lovely football under Davies and nobody complained then - we're 9th under Clough, in striking distance of the play offs, so what's so different?

I'd say he's proved when he's got a full, fit squad that he's assembled, we're a decent team. Not sure how on earth you can just pluck out the sky that his system doesn't work away from home, when the results have been half decent. I know you're a Clough hater but you can't just put an inaccurate slant on things to suit your argument.

That just proves my point, look what happened when we got promoted under Davies, we didnt adapt and got punished.

I'd say we're a decent team at home. How have i plucked it out the air? I've gave you cold hard facts, a 22% win rate away from home under Clough in 3 years shows at this moment in time his general away system doesnt work. Where is the inaccurate slant on that?

You're slant is the inaccurate one, using short term successes as a basis for your argument. If i spent a year losing money at roulette then had a week where i kept winning, it doesnt mean i've been successful at roulette overall.

[bcnram]

That just proves my point, look what happened when we got promoted under Davies, we didnt adapt and got punished.

I'd say we're a decent team at home. How have i plucked it out the air? I've gave you cold hard facts, a 22% win rate away from home under Clough in 3 years shows at this moment in time his general away system doesnt work. Where is the inaccurate slant on that?

You're slant is the inaccurate one, using short term successes as a basis for your argument. If i spent a year losing money at roulette then had a week where i kept winning, it doesnt mean i've been successful at roulette overall.

It is a little bit daft to use the last three years for the basis of your argument, during a time when the team has had to be dismantled bit by bit and rebuilt. Better to use this season to date now that he is achieving his own settled side. I think that comes out at just shy of 39%.

[Asanovic]

That just proves my point, look what happened when we got promoted under Davies, we didnt adapt and got punished.

I'd say we're a decent team at home. How have i plucked it out the air? I've gave you cold hard facts, a 22% win rate away from home under Clough in 3 years shows at this moment in time his general away system doesnt work. Where is the inaccurate slant on that?

You're slant is the inaccurate one, using short term successes as a basis for your argument. If i spent a year losing money at roulette then had a week where i kept winning, it doesnt mean i've been successful at roulette overall.

So in order to go up, and do well, you have to play good football? No. You have to know when to grind it out, and get results. That's what we've done. Davies was absolutely appalling in the transfer market, which in my opinion was a big part of our undoing.

You've picked a period of three years where we've had our squad blown apart by necessary transfers, and a lack of replacements. Hardly fair. If you were a sales manager and I looked at your team over a 3 year period, where you had to make people redundant and not replace them, you wouldn't be too thrilled.

'The system', as you keep referring to, clearly, and obviously, does work. The players that have had to be part of that system haven't always been good enough, because they've been drafted in to cover injuries and sales. It's no coincidence we've looked a better side away from home in the last few weeks, because we've had a strong squad available. It's not rocket science.

[networker1884]

They are just boring.

Can't see who from this current team can play and score like this.

Some absolutely brilliant team and individual goals.

Goal #6 is my all time favorite. Stunning.

Jones scored some crackers too but it's not in this 10.

I won't even talk about Burley's time. About Idiakez, Smith e.t.c.

I forgot how good Barnes was!

[networker1884]

If we had Barnes, Commons and Bueno back, with Ward. On their day it would be the most creative quality football in the league.

[Bris Vegas]

So in order to go up, and do well, you have to play good football? No. You have to know when to grind it out, and get results. That's what we've done. Davies was absolutely appalling in the transfer market, which in my opinion was a big part of our undoing.

You've picked a period of three years where we've had our squad blown apart by necessary transfers, and a lack of replacements. Hardly fair. If you were a sales manager and I looked at your team over a 3 year period, where you had to make people redundant and not replace them, you wouldn't be too thrilled.

'The system', as you keep referring to, clearly, and obviously, does work. The players that have had to be part of that system haven't always been good enough, because they've been drafted in to cover injuries and sales. It's no coincidence we've looked a better side away from home in the last few weeks, because we've had a strong squad available. It's not rocket science.

I wouldn't say we've looked that good over the past few weeks away from home.. Since our injuries have returned we've..

Lost away at WHU 3-1 - Poor performance, especially 2nd half

Drew away at Palace 1-1 - Average performance, better 2nd half

Lost away at Ipswich 1-0 - Average performance - OK first half poor second against a woeful Ipswich side

Won away at Hull 1-0 - Defensively sound - On the back foot for the whole game with a lucky Theo winner

This team would get slaughtered in the PL, but then again we don't need to worry about that as we won't get there using this crop of players.

I'm not really sure what people are trying to defend here.. The style and the way we won under Billy Davies should be a warning to all future teams wanting a place in the PL.. You cannot simply expect to survive by getting away with average performances and hoping for a lucky winner.. ie. Grinding out results.. It simply doesn't work once you reach a level with decentish ability. People blast Norwich and there late winners last year, but they actually dominated teams at this level as did Swansea and QPR.. Under Billy D we barely dominated a game, under NC it's exactly the same but hopefully that will change over the next 18 months or so.

Being average and (especially away from home) constantly outperformed on a regular basis by NPC sides will not stand you anywhere in the PL should you scrape through the playoffs.. Out of all our past teams in the past 10 years at this level only that George Burley side of 2004/05 would have stood any chance of surviving in the PL..

[EastKentRam]

So in order to go up, and do well, you have to play good football? No. You have to know when to grind it out, and get results. That's what we've done. Davies was absolutely appalling in the transfer market, which in my opinion was a big part of our undoing.

You've picked a period of three years where we've had our squad blown apart by necessary transfers, and a lack of replacements. Hardly fair. If you were a sales manager and I looked at your team over a 3 year period, where you had to make people redundant and not replace them, you wouldn't be too thrilled.

'The system', as you keep referring to, clearly, and obviously, does work. The players that have had to be part of that system haven't always been good enough, because they've been drafted in to cover injuries and sales. It's no coincidence we've looked a better side away from home in the last few weeks, because we've had a strong squad available. It's not rocket science.

We dont know when to grind it out, all we do is grind out results, we dont have any other style than to grind out results away from home. With a really strong home record that can get you up at this level, if you think it will work in the Prem, fair enough, but i'll be shocked if it does.

Have we really looked much better? From what i read at Hull it was a dire game, we showed little ambition but managed to nick a goal and see it out. At Ipswich, Peterborough, Palace and West Ham we played well for 45 minutes but poor for the other, if that constitutes playing well for you then once again fair enough, but you've got low expectations after three years of building.

Do you agree that Clough has a style of play away from home? I think he does and we've played a similar system away for his entire time here. You're conclusively saying it does work based on four wins this season so far, im using a longer period of time to analyse it. You saying it's been injury hit squad etc most of that time is a fair enough point but that excuse wears thin. It was suppose to 'his squad' last year but that pushed back to this year when it went tits up last season. Our away record is about mid table, lets see where it is at the end of the season.

[Asanovic]

We dont know when to grind it out, all we do is grind out results, we dont have any other style than to grind out results away from home. With a really strong home record that can get you up at this level, if you think it will work in the Prem, fair enough, but i'll be shocked if it does.

Have we really looked much better? From what i read at Hull it was a dire game, we showed little ambition but managed to nick a goal and see it out. At Ipswich, Peterborough, Palace and West Ham we played well for 45 minutes but poor for the other, if that constitutes playing well for you then once again fair enough, but you've got low expectations after three years of building.

Do you agree that Clough has a style of play away from home? I think he does and we've played a similar system away for his entire time here. You're conclusively saying it does work based on four wins this season so far, im using a longer period of time to analyse it. You saying it's been injury hit squad etc most of that time is a fair enough point but that excuse wears thin. It was suppose to 'his squad' last year but that pushed back to this year when it went tits up last season. Our away record is about mid table, lets see where it is at the end of the season.

If you want us to play great football away from home all the time, you're deluded, and should go and support another team. We're doing well with the players available, and I'm sure, apart from you and Bris, most people would take a 1-0 away at a team in the top six, irrespective of how we got it. I don't care if we were dire (which we weren't anyway), I was delighted with the result. If it's every game then fair enough, but at home we've looked pretty good, in addition to a few decent away performances.

You talk about three years of building but it's not building with the same squad of players - part of the 'building' process was getting rid of players, and bringing cheaper ones in. If Nigel Clough had the same squad as he did three years ago, and we'd made no improvement, then I'd be the first to criticise, but he's brought his own players in to make the wage structure sustainable, and we're 9th.

I'm not saying it does work based on four wins, I'm saying it works based on the fact that when we have a fit squad we look so much better. The same as every squad in professional football. I don't see how that excuse can wear thin - if he'd had money to replace injuries then fine, it's very thin, but he hasn't.

I find myself defending Clough all the time but all I'm really doing is saying it as I see it. To people like you and Bris you have to like him or not like him - why not just tell it as it is? Honestly, you two are the most negative posters on this forum, and I can't remember the last time I saw either of you post anything positive about Derby. Fair play if you want to spunk your cash to watch a team you moan about all the time, but it wouldn't be for me.

[Duracell]

They are just boring.

Can't see who from this current team can play and score like this.

Some absolutely brilliant team and individual goals.

Goal #6 is my all time favorite. Stunning.

Jones scored some crackers too but it's not in this 10.

I won't even talk about Burley's time. About Idiakez, Smith e.t.c.

We've scored some goals like that this season too, Ward's at Forest, Davies against Milwall, Davies against Birmingham...a number of crackers.

[Duracell]

No point looking looking at the short term, Cloughs overall win percentage away from home is about 22% (i think) which is poor.

It's poor cos most of the time away from home our performance isnt good enough, cos we're too negative. Yes we beat Watford and Hull this season but if anyone was pleased with that style of play when winning they're mad. Clough has proved over time that the style he plays doesnt work, yet he keeps trying it.

No squad can "cope" with the injuries we have had, even Arsenal and United struggle with 5 or more players out.

Whether it's Cloughs fault that we're having so many injrueis is up for debate, you could blame him for having the injuries - but you can't expect any team at any level to have over half it's first choice team out injured to not show signs of weakness, especially with a squad our size.

[needles]

I'd say Brayford, Barker, Bryson and Fielding could do a good job in the top flight. Others like Shackell and Green could fill in here and there and a lot of the younger lads can still reach the required standard. Hendrick for instance if he gets his head down and works at it, Ball too - certainly Hughes and Bennett might.

Not every player in the Prem is a silky skilled super-star. Even top flight sides need the odd hod-carrier. See Robbie Savage for details.

[Ambitious]

Trying to suggest we're boring because we don't score enough 'hollywood' goals' 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

******* jesus, brainless!!

[PistoldPete2]

I think Bris must be the biggest critic ever.

To say we were outplayed against West Ham is rubbish, we were the better team in the first half and their equaliser was totally against the run of play. Also the penalty was outside the box.

To say we were outplayed against Boro is also rubbish when we hit the woodwork 4 times.

And to say were outplayed against Soton is also rubbish. Hull didnt exactly have that many chances against us either.

We have been outplayed by Cardiff and (at least in shooting) by Leicester and I think thats it.

By "outplayed" I think he means the opposition had the better of the game even if they didnt win.

With a full strength defence of Fielding Barker Shackell ec I would exepct quite a few more cheeky 1-0 wins.

Its a bit like 2006/7 except I fancy those three in our current defence more than Bywater, Leacock and Moore .

[Bris Vegas]

I think Bris must be the biggest critic ever.

To say we were outplayed against West Ham is rubbish, we were the better team in the first half and their equaliser was totally against the run of play. Also the penalty was outside the box.

To say we were outplayed against Boro is also rubbish when we hit the woodwork 4 times.

And to say were outplayed against Soton is also rubbish. Hull didnt exactly have that many chances against us either.

We have been outplayed by Cardiff and (at least in shooting) by Leicester and I think thats it.

By "outplayed" I think he means the opposition had the better of the game even if they didnt win.

With a full strength defence of Fielding Barker Shackell ec I would exepct quite a few more cheeky 1-0 wins.

Its a bit like 2006/7 except I fancy those three in our current defence more than Bywater, Leacock and Moore .

The term outplayed I use as in the opposition takes control of the game, having generally more of the ball, more opportunities, pressing further up the pitch, having more shots and working the opposite goalkeeper..

Against Boro we barely mustered a shot until the 70th minute when we basically had no other option than to go for broke.. We were 2-0 down and it could have been more, we were on the backfoot for 70 minutes hardly breaking out of our half..

WHU away, the game where we won the ball in midfield and sprung our first attack of the game, with Priskin scoring.. Other than that, we barely threatened, and WHU were camped in our half.. In the 2nd half we didn't even have a shot, despite chasing the game we spent more time in our half.. Penalty or not, WHU dominated us quite easily and they were poor..

Southampton at home, is this a joke? After Theo scored after 5 minutes or so we were under pressure for the next hour or so camped in our own half.. If ever there was a saying 'the goal was coming' then that sums up perfects Lamberts goal.. We were thoroughly outplayed, their passing and movement put us to shame.. Frank Fielding was MOTM and we had 40% possession of the ball, despite being the home team.. Imagine going away to someone like Hull, having 60% possession and their GK getting MOTM... No, I can't either.

Cardiff and Leicester say no more

And Hull, the team that comfortably beat us at PP (despite Clough being happy with the performance) away from home... Again are you serious? They were camped in our half for virtually the whole game, we were given 9 minutes highlights of that game and our only contribution going forward was 30 seconds, Theo scoring after the 3rd attempt of kicking the ball and a speculative Paul Green long ranger..

No one is saying that we need to dominate and outplay the opposition everygame, even the best teams around need to grind out a few wins.. But people get blinded by the results and think 'well that's all that matters'.. Keep saying that and we'll be looking to break our previous worst points tally record in the PL.

[Duracell]

Agree with some of those points but you're incredibly harsh on us sometimes.

I know you hate bias from fans torwards their own team, but this almost seems like bias against us? You seem unable to give an ounce of credit to anyone at Derby County for anything. Do you see why you wind up some staunch supporters?

Can't help feeling you'd get your points accross far better if you took a better tone.

[Bris Vegas]

Agree with some of those points but you're incredibly harsh on us sometimes.

I know you hate bias from fans torwards their own team, but this almost seems like bias against us? You seem unable to give an ounce of credit to anyone at Derby County for anything. Do you see why you wind up some staunch supporters?

Can't help feeling you'd get your points accross far better if you took a better tone.

This isn't bias against us, If I was being biased I'd have said that we've been dominated in all of our games and our wins over the likes of Millwall, Donny and Portsmouth were lucky.. They weren't we deserved the 3 points on those occasions.

I selected specific games (hence I excluded the WHU home game where we played well) and said that in these games we were outplayed by the top 6 opposition, to which someone replied that it was rubbish.. Which in itself is incorrect.

Fans of all clubs will be biased towards their club, this grinds me and I have to ignore certain posters on this forum in that respect as some of them are clearly too far off the scale on one side.. Some posters on this forum bleed dcfc, and would literally die to save their name in vein, I get that..

But a wide variety of opinions is needed, that's what makes a forum decent.