RotherhamRam Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Can I please ask people to have a look at the squad for Derby we have a 15yr old striker coming through called Mason Bennett. There has been previous threads about how many youngsters we have who are playing at their respective international age group. Clough has been here for 3 years. He decides who runs the academies and with out the right staff the youngsters don't make the grade. We have had Tom Huddlestone then a gap to Giles Barnes. Brilliant 2 players in what the last 10yrs. Under Clough we have O'Brien, Hendrick, Ball, this Mason Bennett, Chris Jones that is 5 coming through the ranks. Now call me daft when Gary and Phil Neville, Scholes, Beckham and co came through at United Ferguson was manager of the first team and someone was manager of the academy. Ferguson was not the man who ran the academy and ran training for these youngsters developing them nurturing them. SKY 1 even showed Murinho at Chelsea and Inter Milan running training sessions at Academy because he was their Academy coach and wanted to identify the next young special player. 'OH WAIT A MINUTE - no it did not he was coaching the 1st team and went down once to say hello them' People stop thinking it is Championship Manager where one person does it all it does not happen. I did not rate Davies and hated him when he left cos he spent millions on shhhit. Jewell gave him benefit of doubt until the start of life in Championship but he spent millions on shhhhit and left when bottled it. Clough come in and spent £1million on a deal each summer and brought Brayford, Shackell, Barker and Bailey no way can these be classed as shiitt. Couple with youngster coming through. Further beating Forest 2-1 with 10 men finding something negative is pointing to WUM, pig headed stubborness and not willing to admit that Clough said the plan was for 10 yrs and fans will have to be patient and the team is improving. You only have to look at the last 4 seasons Saturday we would have lost before that game last season. Not only did we win it it was not lucky and we deserved it. Yes Clough has made mistakes but every manager makes mistakes. People jump on the fact he has fallen out with player for no reason Croft, Cywka just two yet here they are playing and in the squad. Come on time to be fair and not let old biases remain and look at the actual information available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 R R . Just out of interest what was your opinion when we did not win for three months ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 R R . Just out of interest what was your opinion when we did not win for three months ? Honestly my opinion as a season ticket holder watching the game was dreading going. Not because I blamed Clough. The fact that we were not in a position to get rid of players bringing us down until this summer. We had to many players still here from the disaster season of PL. That is damaging plus having Jewell there who had no clue about man magement his idea was to have a massive squad of the same ability and that was not good. We did not have the right players had to rely on loans and that is not down to Clough but down to the board. The board screwed up before the last two seasons under Clough by spending the money on the recommendations of a manager who leeft Wigan after burning out and being out of football for a season. The money spent under Jewell has left us where we are. Under Clough yes it has been rough but he had a simple remit of keep us up cut the wage bill. The board knew enough to realise we would not go up with the squad at the club but did not have the money to change it in one season. I DO NOT AND HAVE NEVER blamed Clough for the 3 months. The players we had were not good enough lets look at the players who are not in the 1st team plans this season or left through last season Bywater, Leacock, Savage, Pearson, Chris Porter, Saul Deeney, Ben Pringle, Rob Hulse, Kris Commons, Dean Moxey, This is 12 players I can think off who left since last season or will not be in squad. Look at each one the only player I would keep is Moxey only becuase he is younger than Roberts. Not one of those players would fight like for us like this team did on Saturday. Clough is honest manager sometimes too honest but he wanted players who would fight to the end, who wanted to play football for the fans as he often said he wanted performances to show how they respect the fans support but rarely got it. So how did I feel, thought the run was down to the players and their lack of bottle and inability to fight for their team mates the fans etc. Yes I protested against the board because I blame them for wasting money but never called for the manager. Under Davies and Jewell never supported them as I do Clough. When managers like Ferguson praise him when he was at Burton and prior to teh semi-final game in league cup then take stock. My honest view is that fans who support their team are sometimes to passionate and don't see the wood for the trees. Players last season should be shouldering more of the blame then they are at present. We are playing the same formation but with players do what Clough wants and we have 15 points. This season we have gone in the league WWWWLLW 15pts. The run to get us up 15pts was WLLDLLDWWDW it took uss 11 games. We had 6 weeks of good results last yr that was it. I did not hesitate to renew my season tickets and never will. Teams have a bad time. I do not blame Clough and just wish he had same financial support as Davies under previours board and Jewell with this board. So no did not enjoy going but still think we nearly there last year and this year all being well we are now turning the corner. No one blames the players for not being good enough so for me again that was where the blame lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 He only started mentioning Hendrix when it started to look like Useless wasn't going to sign. Plan A was always to get an experienced midfielder in on loan,but then sometimes that's how these things work out., Hendrick was mentioned at the end of last season as someone Clough rated highly, hence why he started playing him. Clough made it clear that he had a bigger role to play this season. I'm sure Plan A was to get an experienced midfielder in so that they didn't have to chuck Hendrick in at the deep end, but it turns out the guy floats anyway. I'm not suggesting that Hendrick was plan A as a regular starter, but he was going to be involved a lot this season anyway. It turns out that Clough has enough faith in him to reduce the priority of another central midfielder. He's doing a good job, so why bring someone in? The fact we're looking again now Bailey's injured suggests that if he really, really wanted to, Clough could have brought a CM in. Eustace was plan A but there was clearly a plan B. Which, in my book, is good management. It's great when Plan Bs work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 R R . Just out of interest what was your opinion when we did not win for three months ? It is possible to criticise Clough for our rough patch and praise him for bringing in academy talent to the first team. It's not either/or 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Hendrick was mentioned at the end of last season as someone Clough rated highly, hence why he started playing him. Clough made it clear that he had a bigger role to play this season. I'm sure Plan A was to get an experienced midfielder in so that they didn't have to chuck Hendrick in at the deep end, but it turns out the guy floats anyway. I'm not suggesting that Hendrick was plan A as a regular starter, but he was going to be involved a lot this season anyway. It turns out that Clough has enough faith in him to reduce the priority of another central midfielder. He's doing a good job, so why bring someone in? The fact we're looking again now Bailey's injured suggests that if he really, really wanted to, Clough could have brought a CM in. Eustace was plan A but there was clearly a plan B. Which, in my book, is good management. It's great when Plan Bs work. No need to rush, this team will not be relegated, maybe a left sided defender, and leave it at that. Most are happy it seems with mid table mediocrity for another six years, so go with what we have got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It is possible to criticise Clough for our rough patch and praise him for bringing in academy talent to the first team. It's not either/or 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> How many EVER criticise him though 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 No need to rush, this team will not be relegated, maybe a left sided defender, and leave it at that. Most are happy it seems with mid table mediocrity for another six years, so go with what we have got. Erm. Not really sure why you quoted my post to make that point 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> I'm not happy with mid-table mediocrity, but I'm not going to put a downer on every thread I see when we're probably over-achieving considering our resources. We all expected mid-table mediocrity when GSE announced their plans for the club which was basically austerity, and they made a long-term apppointment in the managerial department, someone who wasn't looking for instant success to use on his CV. Three mid-table seasons and a miraculous escape from going down to the third tier without ever really coming properly close, which is an achievment in itself. The club is now on the up again and we've stopped cutting. We're now adding. And we've had the 4th best start to the season in the league. That's not mediocre. There's debate to be had about Clough, I agree. But to claim fans are "happy" with the past few seasons isn't right. It's just a case of who thinks we could have expected more and who thinks we couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 How many EVER criticise him though 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Plenty on the fundamental mistakes he made 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> I think everyone agrees he treated Cywka poorly, most people agree that we've looked tactially inept at many times, most of us don't get what he sees in Pearson or what he saw in Sav. I genuinely believe it didn't really matter who was in charge in these past couple of seasons, the best we could hope for was midtable. I guess it's a bit like being in a coma. We were on the field just to play our fixtures, not compete - we just had a board who wanted us to stay up and cut the wage bill. Who was our manager has been pretty irelavant so long as he kept us up. It's now when we can start the proper debate about the manager. It's Clough's side, 100% his regime and he's stopped having to cut. He's still on limited resources but the job's doable now. This season is his first chance, in my book. He could afford to miss out on the top 10. But not next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Erm. Not really sure why you quoted my post to make that point 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> I'm not happy with mid-table mediocrity, but I'm not going to put a downer on every thread I see when we're probably over-achieving considering our resources. We all expected mid-table mediocrity when GSE announced their plans for the club which was basically austerity, and they made a long-term apppointment in the managerial department, someone who wasn't looking for instant success to use on his CV. Three mid-table seasons and a miraculous escape from going down to the third tier without ever really coming properly close, which is an achievment in itself. The club is now on the up again and we've stopped cutting. We're now adding. And we've had the 4th best start to the season in the league. That's not mediocre. There's debate to be had about Clough, I agree. But to claim fans are "happy" with the past few seasons isn't right. It's just a case of who thinks we could have expected more and who thinks we couldn't. The quote was because you said we were looking at a replacement for Bailey 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> PS You have just read a post talking about the ten year plan, and how they will be happy with mid table,I am not making it up. I also said, yesterday that I am happy with the start this season, and OK with Clough if it continues, what more can I say 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Word is that Mason Bennett and kwame Thomas??..... are two players we might be getting excited about in the next 4/5 years. If they join a successful OB and Hendrick in a decent Derby side then I might start to believe our academy is back in business!! One thing I envy about forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The quote was because you said we were looking at a replacement for Bailey 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Oh right. Well I don't really understand how not feeling the need to add to a team near the top is settling for mid-table mediocrity, but ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 No need to rush, this team will not be relegated, maybe a left sided defender, and leave it at that. Most are happy it seems with mid table mediocrity for another six years, so go with what we have got. Yes, we may have to settle for mid table mediocrity for a few seasons. Can you really expect us to just waltz straight into a Champions league spot......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yes, we may have to settle for mid table mediocrity for a few seasons. Can you really expect us to just waltz straight into a Champions league spot......... Been there, done that, got the shirt, took four years though I admit. Different competition though 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Oh right. Well I don't really understand how not feeling the need to add to a team near the top is settling for mid-table mediocrity, but ok. I'm not settling, but this team will have to collapse even worse than last season not to finish mid table, agree ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 No need to rush, this team will not be relegated, maybe a left sided defender, and leave it at that. Most are happy it seems with mid table mediocrity for another six years, so go with what we have got. and don't forget some aren't that bothered if we win or lose 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram2767 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 How many EVER criticise him though 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> You do, on a regular basis...so we don't need to i suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 You do, on a regular basis...so we don't need to i suppose Not this season pal. You will probably be one of those that criticise is a round about way, like saying Pearson is crap and should not play, same with Savage when he was here, but seem to forget the fact that Clough played them both when fit, was he wrong., if so how many time did you criticise him openly. How many times do so called blind faith people moan about formations, or substitutions, who are they criticising, would not be the manager maybe ? Honestly some of you make my co ck laugh 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekkie_ram Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 edit - posted in the wrong thread. (well, maybe I did, I made a post about ticket prices). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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