Day Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm the creator of the WUM nemesis. Them likes are mine. It's easy to say you're not interested, and many will agree with you. But that's not my point. I'm, not sitting here not saying anything until next summer, when we haven't gone up, haven't had a good cup run and start selling our better players. They've done it before, they'll do it again. it won't be cost-cutting this time, it will be ROI, the two go hand in hand. Not saying you keep it zipped till next summer, but you've been moaning before a ball has even been kicked in pre-season training and most of it has been investment this investment that based on guess work. Your morphing into an older straight version of Young Ram..no offence YR. I don't think anyone on here is thinking promotion this season, ok maybe B4 but other than that most are looking at a top half finish which I think should be achievable. I may be way off here but I think the Tyson signing has put the biggest bee ever seen before in your bonnet, I don't remember you being this depressing last season when we were actually playing crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Can't really say too much as not a great deal is known about Maguire and Bryson so much depends on how well they adapt to the CCC. The only signing that's left me a bit disappointed is Robinson - he gets into decent positions but his touch and his composure really need work. The rest, all good for me, even Tyson. If Clough can get the best out of him then hopefully he can consistently find the form that he usually displays against him. Let's face it, at Forest he's had Billy and Calderwood. Calderwood's vvank, and we all know what Billy's like when he decides a player isn't in his plans (Earnshaw)...... Hopefully we've sorted out the defence - looks to be the most solid in a long time - Shackell, Barker and Fielding gives very good cover at the back, and Brayford we already know will do well down the right. Providing we can either get the best out of Roberts, or get a better LB then I have no concerns over the defence. Still need a decent defensive midfielder, and it remains to be seen whether Bryson will give us enough creativity going forward. If we play 4-2-3-1 then I like the sound of Waghorn, Ward, Tyson and Maguire up there, moreso than the majority of lineups we've put out under that formation last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Not saying you keep it zipped till next summer, but you've been moaning before a ball has even been kicked in pre-season training and most of it has been investment this investment that based on guess work. Your morphing into an older straight version of Young Ram..no offence YR. I don't think anyone on here is thinking promotion this season, ok maybe B4 but other than that most are looking at a top half finish which I think should be achievable. I may be way off here but I think the Tyson signing has put the biggest bee ever seen before in your bonnet, I don't remember you being this depressing last season when we were actually playing crap. Yeah it's guess work, but i honestly believe i'm not far off. I wasn't like this last season because i believed in the GSE model....i don't anymore. I used to have slanging matches with PeteDerby all the time(defending GSE), but he's a successful businessman, and now i feel like a tit, because i think he was right all along. Sorry Pete. Tyson has really annoyed me, i make my posts jokingly, but i would rather scratch my Derby tattoo off if it meant he didn't sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I don't think anyone on here is thinking promotion this season, ok maybe B4. Promotion? Pfft, we're nailed on for the Champions League this year...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Promotion? Pfft, we're nailed on for the Champions League this year......Glick said we are aiming for the playoffs. I hope it is not with a gigantic telescopic site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I don't see what GSE have done between last season and this season to make you shift opinion so much. I can't back this up with facts but I would of thought it's Clough who is identifying the players he wants at the club and Glick is bringing them in. If you are not happy with the signings then shouldn't you be pointing your finger at Clough? I've not once heard him say we are on a limited budget, or he's struggling to find players as he has said previously. I've even seen him having a laugh and a joke on some of the Rams Player interviews, he doesn't look like a man that is under pressure working with a shoe string budget. Tyson IMO could be one of the signings of the summer, his pace will be a major asset to the team, forget what the bitter Forest fans say....Billy Davies picked him for 75 games in the last 2 seasons for a club that finished in the play offs twice. Billy D aint got a bad track record at this level now has he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 I don't see what GSE have done between last season and this season to make you shift opinion so much. I can't back this up with facts but I would of thought it's Clough who is identifying the players he wants at the club and Glick is bringing them in. If you are not happy with the signings then shouldn't you be pointing your finger at Clough? I've not once heard him say we are on a limited budget, or he's struggling to find players as he has said previously. I've even seen him having a laugh and a joke on some of the Rams Player interviews, he doesn't look like a man that is under pressure working with a shoe string budget. Tyson IMO could be one of the signings of the summer, his pace will be a major asset to the team, forget what the bitter Forest fans say....Billy Davies picked him for 75 games in the last 2 seasons for a club that finished in the play offs twice. Billy D aint got a bad track record at this level now has he. Because we was always promised investment since last summer. So i was expecting some proper investment.....which with a few simple looks here and there just isn't happening imo. I'm angry, proper angry that other people can't see this. I've read post saying "time for Clough to prove himself now" and "4 million investment". I really can't believe what i'm reading sometimes and i have to type loads of letters in frustration. PeteDerby might have been banned but i can understand his frustration because you try and prove a point that 100% factually you cannot. Then others chip in with "post of the week" etc..... i was pretty close to calling him a few choice words.....and that's exactly what happened to PeteDerby. I might be wrong, i hope i am and i hope that somebody quotes all this and tells me what an idiot i am at the end of the season. But i don't think it will happen. I went to a Grammar School, i've got a business degree and i run my own business. That doesn't mean i'm right, but it does mean i can read accounts, and it does mean i can form an intelligent opinion based on factual events. The thing that dissapoints me most, is that when Ramblur was well enough and came on to "the budget" thread, he basically agreed with my thoughts on it all. He's an accountant and a really clever bloke. Another reason why i'm sure i'm not wrong. I have nothing against Clough. I think he's done a great job. He should be happy now, he's done the hard bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 But again, it's Clough who picks out the players he wants. He seems a happy man right now, much happier than he was last season in interviews. If a manager gets the players he wants, where is the problem with the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 But again, it's Clough who picks out the players he wants. He seems a happy man right now, much happier than he was last season in interviews. If a manager gets the players he wants, where is the problem with the board? Because i think he has a list of targets that have potential, and nothing else. Potential that's cheap to buy, cheap wages and the potential to become a saleable asset. That's the boards doing. If he had a bigger budget etc, he would be able to draw a completely different list up. If we were Donny this model wouldn't work. The turnover wouldn't be great enought to bring in a competitive squad. If the playing field was level like in a few years time, then yes, but not now. We're unique in terms of turnover and crowds., in the fact that wages at 60% of our turnover allows us to compete with half the division as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roofio Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I love people who have already written off Maguire and Bryson as bad signings before they have even kicked a ball for Derby! Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 I love people who have already written off Maguire and Bryson as bad signings before they have even kicked a ball for Derby! Brilliant! Nobodys writing them off or calling them bad, read again. To invest in a saleable asset, you have to think about percentages. It's low risk, but low success rates usually. But in football, the variables aren't as great. If you have someone who can spot a player, the risk goes down further. If the risk doesn't pay off, you can get your money back.....Moxey is a great example. These aren't proven players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roofio Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Nobodys writing them off or calling them bad, read again. To invest in a saleable asset, you have to think about percentages. It's low risk, but low success rates usually. But in football, the variables aren't as great. If you have someone who can spot a player, the risk goes down further. If the risk doesn't pay off, you can get your money back.....Moxey is a great example. These aren't proven players. Yes, but if every team just bought 'Saleable Assets' instead of young upcoming talent, the leagues would be ruddy boring. You have to take risks on players and yes they are risks but then Premiership teams bring in players for 20 times the fee and wages and they are unproven. Charlie Adam is a prime example, he was playing in the scottish leagues and then suddenly is being touted for £10m+ after a couple of good seasons. Have faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 If he had a bigger budget etc, he would be able to draw a completely different list up. How do you know the budget he has been given isn't more than adequate, have we heard Clough say anything remotely like that to suggest he isn't happy? If he isn't he's doing a pretty damn good job with hiding it compared to last season when he was pretty vocal on the limited budget. You can't argue with a manager that has a smile on his face having signed 8 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Yes, but if every team just bought 'Saleable Assets' instead of young upcoming talent, the leagues would be ruddy boring. You have to take risks on players and yes they are risks but then Premiership teams bring in players for 20 times the fee and wages and they are unproven. Charlie Adam is a prime example, he was playing in the scottish leagues and then suddenly is being touted for £10m+ after a couple of good seasons. Have faith. That bit in bold is basically describing a saleable asset. Premier league teams have more than 20 times our revenue. Charlie Adam is a prime example of a saleable asset. Young, cheap, low wages, turned into a high sell-on price. Maximum profit. He's our John Brayford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roofio Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 That bit in bold is basically describing a saleable asset. Premier league teams have more than 20 times our revenue. Charlie Adam is a prime example of a saleable asset. Young, cheap, low wages, turned into a high sell-on price. Maximum profit. He's our John Brayford Ok, so what makes Brayford different to Maguire and Bryson, are they on £250,000 a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'd rather have potential than journeymen. #justsaying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsall_Ram Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 We could always sell Bryson and Maguire on to Wigan for a profit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Because i think he has a list of targets that have potential, and nothing else. Potential that's cheap to buy, cheap wages and the potential to become a saleable asset. It baffles me too mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 How do you know the budget he has been given isn't more than adequate, have we heard Clough say anything remotely like that to suggest he isn't happy? If he isn't he's doing a pretty damn good job with hiding it compared to last season when he was pretty vocal on the limited budget. You can't argue with a manager that has a smile on his face having signed 8 players. I'm not. it's not the now i'm concerned with. I'm 99%sure Glick has said there is only 5 teams in the top two leagues who have 60% or less wages against turnover. Man Utd is one of them and so are we. The frustrations of last season will have gone, he can now use the budget for what he wants, not for overpaid Blackpool players. Like i said, half the managers in this league would like our budget, even being at 60% of turnover. We're a unique case. What it doesn't give you is enough to be on the same financial level as 7 or 8 teams in this league. I'm not worried about now, i'm worried about his time next year. But if i suggest that a quicker ROI is only possible with some of these assets being sold, i'll be hunted down on here. There will be a time when no more saving is neccessary or possible. It's then i worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Ok, so what makes Brayford different to Maguire and Bryson, are they on £250,000 a week? Absolutely nothing, and that is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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