uttoxram75 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 dunna get yer razor blades out round here! Daveo would be sued for mass internet suicides! I'm quietly confident (as always, apart from when Tommy Docherty took over, he were a raite bad un). Interested to see Mclarens comments about needing experience/older heads. Bit of a dig at Billy who, in reality, did'nt really seem to want to play youngsters anyway..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Tree Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 dunna get yer razor blades out round here! Daveo would be sued for mass internet suicides! I'm quietly confident (as always, apart from when Tommy Docherty took over, he were a raite bad un). Interested to see Mclarens comments about needing experience/older heads. Bit of a dig at Billy who, in reality, did'nt really seem to want to play youngsters anyway..? I think derby will do ok this season tbh; top signing in shackell, rate him very highly as well as fielding. Can see you finishing top 10 but play offs just out of reach me thinks. Yeah billys downfall was not bringin young'uns through which is what doughty wants and forest have always done. We have some top young players coming through ranks in next year or so such as Lascelles n moloney and they need a manager who will give them a chance; billy would have ruined these lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceland Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Sorry mate, that was kind of directed to TR! Cheers No problem my friend Think it would be a better option to send him to Burton on loan. Would of like Ross Atkins (From Academy and Derby fan) to be a first team regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 If there is a team that had to sell their only two stand out players, not replace them, and finish above us, let me know who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (I don't know that there isn't anyone....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I think derby will do ok this season tbh; top signing in shackell, rate him very highly as well as fielding. Can see you finishing top 10 but play offs just out of reach me thinks. Yeah billys downfall was not bringin young'uns through which is what doughty wants and forest have always done. We have some top young players coming through ranks in next year or so such as Lascelles n moloney and they need a manager who will give them a chance; billy would have ruined these lads. I agree with you Tricky - there that's a first I think. On the ramsplayer interview Clough said the following, can't remember the exact words but it's my take on it. There are about a dozen players with the potential to make the first team from Under 15's up. When talking to Shackell he told him his transfer targets for the rest of the summer- which caused a couple of raised eyebrows from Shackell. This could indicate that there are a couple of biggish names, that other pros, if not fans, think are quality players and that the youth system could start bearing fruit in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I agree with you Tricky - there that's a first I think. On the ramsplayer interview Clough said the following, can't remember the exact words but it's my take on it. There are about a dozen players with the potential to make the first team from Under 15's up. When talking to Shackell he told him his transfer targets for the rest of the summer- which caused a couple of raised eyebrows from Shackell. This could indicate that there are a couple of biggish names, that other pros, if not fans, think are quality players and that the youth system could start bearing fruit in a couple of years. Agree with the youth bit. Ball, Hendrick, O'Brien... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Ssausagehorpe sold both their top scorers, in league one now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Ssausagehorpe sold both their top scorers, in league one now. Yes, I knew I was right. GET IN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Come off it smiffy, do you honestly believe Clough has a mandate from the board to go out and bid £3m for one player? Did I say that ? My point is that Clough has been defended by people saying that his hands have been tied, but if he keeps to his guns and pays only what he thinks a player is worth, then more risky managers may outbid him. If this were the case, would you still defend him,even if say we miss a 15 goal striker for the sake of maybe 100k ? There will of coarse be managers with more dosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Did I say that ? My point is that Clough has been defended by people saying that his hands have been tied, but if he keeps to his guns and pays only what he thinks a player is worth, then more risky managers may outbid him. If this were the case, would you still defend him,even if say we miss a 15 goal striker for the sake of maybe 100k ? There will of coarse be managers with more dosh. Right, see what you mean, thats almost a different debate. I was making the point that I don't believe Clough can go for the same targets that Leicester and the reddogs can because of the financial limitations - yet we expect him to put a team together to challenge them? Problem is, none of us really know how much net spend GSE have planned for this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Right, see what you mean, thats almost a different debate. I was making the point that I don't believe Clough can go for the same targets that Leicester and the reddogs can because of the financial limitations - yet we expect him to put a team together to challenge them? Problem is, none of us really know how much net spend GSE have planned for this summer. With my doom and gloom hat on I must say that it seems that there has been very little extra investment yet, if you take into account the extra Sky money, and the savings on players that have left or will leave, so maybe there is room for a surprise, lets hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Right, see what you mean, thats almost a different debate. I was making the point that I don't believe Clough can go for the same targets that Leicester and the reddogs can because of the financial limitations - yet we expect him to put a team together to challenge them? Problem is, none of us really know how much net spend GSE have planned for this summer. Sven got given an unlimited budget by the board, obviously want a team in the premiership! the Red Dogs are rumoured to be after these players but the words coming from their board and from the manager saying he wants Forest to be self sufficient so I put their money spending rumours down to the press stiring and assuming. We shouldn't/don't have to concentrate on them, concentrate on ourselves and we'll be alright. I think to much is put on how much a player is brought for, if a player is signed for 4million it doesn't mean for one second he'll be better than one signed for 300k for an extreme example Clod or Brayford? spending money only eliminates the risk of the player being a duffer, however if you go and watch the player and get an idea of his ability that also eliminates the risk! Spending big money on players in this division, when you don't need to at all.. just strikes me as lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Sven got given an unlimited budget by the board, obviously want a team in the premiership! the Red Dogs are rumoured to be after these players but the words coming from their board and from the manager saying he wants Forest to be self sufficient so I put their money spending rumours down to the press stiring and assuming. We shouldn't/don't have to concentrate on them, concentrate on ourselves and we'll be alright. I think to much is put on how much a player is brought for, if a player is signed for 4million it doesn't mean for one second he'll be better than one signed for 300k for an extreme example Clod or Brayford? spending money only eliminates the risk of the player being a duffer, however if you go and watch the player and get an idea of his ability that also eliminates the risk! Spending big money on players in this division, when you don't need to at all.. just strikes me as lazy. Thats a bit daft, surely a players ability governs to a great extent his value ? Clod looked very good before he came to Derby, dont say he didn't, mind that can be said for quite a few players over the last 4 or five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Sven got given an unlimited budget by the board, obviously want a team in the premiership! the Red Dogs are rumoured to be after these players but the words coming from their board and from the manager saying he wants Forest to be self sufficient so I put their money spending rumours down to the press stiring and assuming. We shouldn't/don't have to concentrate on them, concentrate on ourselves and we'll be alright. I think to much is put on how much a player is brought for, if a player is signed for 4million it doesn't mean for one second he'll be better than one signed for 300k for an extreme example Clod or Brayford? spending money only eliminates the risk of the player being a duffer, however if you go and watch the player and get an idea of his ability that also eliminates the risk! Spending big money on players in this division, when you don't need to at all.. just strikes me as lazy. all good points. Personally I don't want us to spend stupid money, I'd be happy to build steadily but that would require more patience from us. I feel those who don't rate Clough will be quick to be vocal and those in the middle will start to doubt as well. Luckily, us blindfaithers have no worries on the outcome!!!!! Just hope the players gel quickly and play some decent stuff early on. Get the crowd behind early doors and anything can happen in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Thats a bit daft, surely a players ability governs to a great extent his value ? Clod looked very good before he came to Derby, dont say he didn't, mind that can be said for quite a few players over the last 4 or five years. He was very good at Preston, not arguing that but he did poorly at Sheffield United and you've been on here as long as I can to remember the warnings from the Sheffield United fans that came onto the NEP forum and told us they had just sold us a duffer! I do agree that a players ability governs his valuation however you have to take loads into account, for instance Media make a big deal about someone and their valuation goes up, the big one is obviously the league they play in, Roger Johnson played for wycombe always been a good player, now valued at 10million so why didn't wycombe demand that fee? also size of the club, we've picked up Barnsleys best player for 1million, if someone wanted to sign our best player (brayford) we would want 2.5million/3million at least! My arguement would be a key player in league one or two could be picked up for 500k(ish) there are squad players in the championship that are proven average that would demand that same fee, just because they play at this level. If you go watch the players then you eliminate the risk, I think people over think how a lot of managers go about their business, I believe a lot buy mainly on merit and statistics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 He was very good at Preston, not arguing that but he did poorly at Sheffield United and you've been on here as long as I can to remember the warnings from the Sheffield United fans that came onto the NEP forum and told us they had just sold us a duffer! I do agree that a players ability governs his valuation however you have to take loads into account, for instance Media make a big deal about someone and their valuation goes up, the big one is obviously the league they play in, Roger Johnson played for wycombe always been a good player, now valued at 10million so why didn't wycombe demand that fee? also size of the club, we've picked up Barnsleys best player for 1million, if someone wanted to sign our best player (brayford) we would want 2.5million/3million at least! My arguement would be a key player in league one or two could be picked up for 500k(ish) there are squad players in the championship that are proven average that would demand that same fee, just because they play at this level. If you go watch the players then you eliminate the risk, I think people over think how a lot of managers go about their business, I believe a lot buy mainly on merit and statistics! Your on a no loser with your arguement, you keep quoting Brayford, if he had NOT come of you would have said that OK, he was worth the risk, he cost only a moderate amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Your on a no loser with your arguement, you keep quoting Brayford, if he had NOT come of you would have said that OK, he was worth the risk, he cost only a moderate amount. I could quote a lot of other players though, you know I could not just at this side but all over the championship, all over the world. It's endless. Spending money for a player elimnates risk of player being a duffer, I agree with that but if you go to watch the player it also eliminates the risk, just depends on how hard you want to work to be successful. Signing Maynard for 4million would be a small risk move because he has proven he can score at this level, but as I was saying at this level you don't need to go about business like this, after being in this league for so long (take away our prem season) I've seen it every single year, one team make improvements and get promoted that wasn't expected just because they didn't spend millions because they went to watch players and brought in the right sort of player we need to do that, it's sensible and for me we would be a lot better of that way then having 11 players on 15-20 grand a week, especially if they don't perform Savage and Varney for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I could quote a lot of other players though, you know I could not just at this side but all over the championship, all over the world. It's endless. Spending money for a player elimnates risk of player being a duffer, I agree with that but if you go to watch the player it also eliminates the risk, just depends on how hard you want to work to be successful. Signing Maynard for 4million would be a small risk move because he has proven he can score at this level, but as I was saying at this level you don't need to go about business like this, after being in this league for so long (take away our prem season) I've seen it every single year, one team make improvements and get promoted that wasn't expected just because they didn't spend millions because they went to watch players and brought in the right sort of player we need to do that, it's sensible and for me we would be a lot better of that way then having 11 players on 15-20 grand a week, especially if they don't perform Savage and Varney for instance.So what happened with Croft, Martin etc, bet you say Clough did not want them, he was forced into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 So what happened with Croft, Martin etc, bet you say Clough did not want them, he was forced into it I'm not talking about Clough here, I'm talking in general and it seem to be Croft/Martin/Roberts as well are the players we brought in on merit! Croft was a POTY in this division, Martin tore us apart in a game in the transfer market and Roberts was key to a midtable doncaster side. This season Doncaster blame their lowly league position on losing a consistent solid defenders in both Roberts and Shackell. Martin tore us apart in one game, in January so I could believe we brought him on that one game rather than watching him over a period of time! As I said, if you watch players over a period of time you eliminate the risk, although just like spending money not all the time as moving clubs can be hard for some players, having watched Ben Davies 20+ times for instance, I know what sort of player he can be an absolutely brilliant player on the ball, very good technically and dangerous, his first touch and passing range is as good as I've seen in the football league, he came here and just hasn't produced anything close to what I was expecting, although I still think he will shine, just like I expect Torres to shine at Chelsea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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