Kevin Hector Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It appears to me that the top 7 or 8 teams in the championship are light years ahead of the worst 4 or 5 teams. When people compare our points total so far with last year, were we really this far behind Forest and Leicester in terms of quality a year ago? How have Norwich flown past us,able to brush all bottom half opposition aside? This disparity was exemplified on Saturday by how Middlesborough took a 3 nil lead against play off hopefuls Swansea and were pegged back and beaten 3 4. Norwich have had several late winners and Forest scored twice late on to beat Portsmouth recently. This trend, is often shown in the SPL by Celtic and Rangers, two teams head and shoulders above their opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It appears to me that the top 7 or 8 teams in the championship are light years ahead of the worst 4 or 5 teams. When people compare our points total so far with last year, were we really this far behind Forest and Leicester in terms of quality a year ago? How have Norwich flown past us,able to brush all bottom half opposition aside? This disparity was exemplified on Saturday by how Middlesborough took a 3 nil lead against play off hopefuls Swansea and were pegged back and beaten 3 4. Norwich have had several late winners and Forest scored twice late on to beat Portsmouth recently. This trend, is often shown in the SPL by Celtic and Rangers, two teams head and shoulders above their opposition. The top 7/8 are miles better than us. Especially in the striking department. Norwich had a good team last year so it doesnt suprise me they've come up and done so well. I do fear for us this year, at a guess I'd say we'll stay up just by about 7 points or so, mainly due to the fact there is a few poorer teams, but not many..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The top 7/8 are miles better than us. Especially in the striking department. Norwich had a good team last year so it doesnt suprise me they've come up and done so well. I do fear for us this year, at a guess I'd say we'll stay up just by about 7 points or so, mainly due to the fact there is a few poorer teams, but not many..... we have picked up 5 points from the current top 8 in 10 games. 11 points from 11 games against the middle 8 19 points from 9 games against the bottom 7 teams. I would say we are pretty much mid table quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Hector Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 The top 7/8 are miles better than us. Especially in the striking department. Norwich had a good team last year so it doesnt suprise me they've come up and done so well. I do fear for us this year, at a guess I'd say we'll stay up just by about 7 points or so, mainly due to the fact there is a few poorer teams, but not many..... I agree with you. The worrying thing for me is, we will stay a bottom 6 side for years to come. It's like comparing ourselves to Wigan in the Prem. When we avoid relegation this year, we wont all of a sudden be challenging in the top half next season, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Hector Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 we have picked up 5 points from the current top 8 in 10 games. 11 points from 11 games against the middle 8 19 points from 9 games against the bottom 7 teams. I would say we are pretty much mid table quality. But surely we aren't as good as we were in October November when we attained most of those good results? On top of that we've lost one of the best players in the CCC, in KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 But surely we aren't as good as we were in October November when we attained most of those good results? On top of that we've lost one of the best players in the CCC, in KC. most of those good results came against the bottom half of the table clubs. our bad run has coincided with lots of games against the top 8 teams - losses to Burnley, Forest twice, Leicester twice and Norwich. We also lost to Watford and Reading in the top half. Yes we have lost a lot of games but look at the teams we were playing. We have four home games against Doncaster, Barnsley, Hull and Coventry who are teams whose form is dodgy - losing to top 8 and beating teams lower down the table and getting results against each other. The only team in the middle of the table or just above us we have played recently is Ipswich, who we put a decent performance against. Left to play - 6 against top 8 clubs - and 10 against clubs between 9th and 24th. As most of our points and decent performances have been against teams in the latter group I am confident that our form will appear to get better - as we play teams more closely matched to our current standard. How would our form have looked over Christmas and January had we palyed Ssausagehorpe twice in 2 weeks instead of Forest? Wouldnt look as bad as it did with 2 losses probably replaced with 2 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 we have picked up 5 points from the current top 8 in 10 games. 11 points from 11 games against the middle 8 19 points from 9 games against the bottom 7 teams. I would say we are pretty much mid table quality. That arguement is flawed.. We were picking up points with Fielding, Kuqi, Moore, Bueno, Moxey and Commons in or around the team.. They've been replaced with Bywater, Porter, B.Davies, G.Roberts, Pearson etc.. For that run we had, I looked at our team and thought it had a solid spine with great youth players all brimming with confidence.. Now we look the complete opposite.. Our team then was top 12 quality. Our team now is bottom 5 quality. If we started the season with this team now I honestly believe we'd be in the bottom 5. Possibly bottom 3. Of the original post, the gap between 2nd and 8th is actually very close.. Whoever finishes 7th/8th will count themselves extremely unfortunate because on previous seasons 70-73 points is required for 6th place. This season 7th/8th will be on 75+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 That arguement is flawed.. We were picking up points with Fielding, Kuqi, Moore, Bueno, Moxey and Commons in or around the team.. They've been replaced with Bywater, Porter, B.Davies, G.Roberts, Pearson etc.. For that run we had, I looked at our team and thought it had a solid spine with great youth players all brimming with confidence.. Now we look the complete opposite.. We were also playing teams of a lower quality to where were then. When we have played teams outside the top half recently we have had good performances. Portsmouth draw, Ipswich lost but played well, Preston beat. Managed to get a draw with Millwall. Why cant we keep the wins agaisnt the bottom three and pick up results from those near us in the table. Our bad run has included Burnley, Forest twice, Leicester twice, and Norwich out of the top 8, and Watford and Reading from the top half. 8 games out of those terrible losses have been against teams in the top half of the table. How many of those terrible losses have been against bottom half teams - 2 against Bristol and Ipswich. Our good run included Preston, Palace, Ssausagehorpe, Boro and Portsmouth. - Were we really that good or was it poor opposition. Could our apparent form in the two periods be caused by a quirk of the fixtures giving us a run of games against poor opposition followed by a run agaisnt better teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 We were also playing teams of a lower quality to where were then. When we have played teams outside the top half recently we have had good performances. Portsmouth draw, Ipswich lost but played well, Preston beat. Managed to get a draw with Millwall. Why cant we keep the wins agaisnt the bottom three and pick up results from those near us in the table. Our bad run has included Burnley, Forest twice, Leicester twice, and Norwich out of the top 8, and Watford and Reading from the top half. 8 games out of those terrible losses have been against teams in the top half of the table. How many of those terrible losses have been against bottom half teams - 2 against Bristol and Ipswich. Our good run included Preston, Palace, Ssausagehorpe, Boro and Portsmouth. - Were we really that good or was it poor opposition. Could our apparent form in the two periods be caused by a quirk of the fixtures giving us a run of games against poor opposition followed by a run agaisnt better teams. Are you confident that this current side can beat teams in the bottom half? A team without Moxey, Commons, Fielding, Kuqi, Moore, Bueno (I make out he's gone, he hasn't, he just can't play with sh*te players). I only have to look at beating Watford 4-1 with those players and without them losing 3-0.. With those players we beat Ipswich 2-0, without we lost 2-1. With those we beat Pompey 2-0, without we drew 1-1. Our run against top teams also coincided with dropping Kuqi, moving (positionally) Green and Brayford.. WHo knows what could have happened against them had we not done that. I'm not confident about beating the same teams again without our better players from the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Are you confident that this current side can beat teams in the bottom half? A team without Moxey, Commons, Fielding, Kuqi, Moore, Bueno (I make out he's gone, he hasn't, he just can't play with sh*te players). I only have to look at beating Watford 4-1 with those players and without them losing 3-0.. With those players we beat Ipswich 2-0, without we lost 2-1. With those we beat Pompey 2-0, without we drew 1-1. Our run against top teams also coincided with dropping Kuqi, moving (positionally) Green and Brayford.. WHo knows what could have happened against them had we not done that. I'm not confident about beating the same teams again without our better players from the season. With those players we lost 2-0 to Millwall without them we drew. With those players we beat Preston - without them we beat Preston. I do believe that our current players are good enough to beat Ssausagehorpe and Sheff united away and get results at home to Doncaster, Bristol and Barnsley. we cant compare like for like at the moment as we havent played many bottom half teams for the second time yet, and they all look worse than us at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 With those players we lost 2-0 to Millwall without them we drew. With those players we beat Preston - without them we beat Preston. I do believe that our current players are good enough to beat Ssausagehorpe and Sheff united away and get results at home to Doncaster, Bristol and Barnsley. we cant compare like for like at the moment as we havent played many bottom half teams for the second time yet, and they all look worse than us at the moment. I guess we'll find out.. Just a stat though, we're yet to win a game this season without Commons.. Also, other than the run, we've only won 2 games all season. Leeds (A) first game and Preston (A).. I'm not confident about picking up many more wins, I think only 4 more, but I don't think we'll go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 4 more wins would be enough IMO, even moreso if we picked up a couple of draws as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Hector Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think we will stay up, but does anyone agree that we are now a genuine bottom 6 club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I don't concur with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think we will stay up, but does anyone agree that we are now a genuine bottom 6 club? No because we are 8th from bottom, and haven't finished in bottom 6 in the previous 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Hector Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 No because we are 8th from bottom, and haven't finished in bottom 6 in the previous 2 seasons. I know that Dav, but look at the trends. We are the second most out of form team in the league, definately worse than our present position! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 we have picked up 5 points from the current top 8 in 10 games. 11 points from 11 games against the middle 8 19 points from 9 games against the bottom 7 teams. I would say we are pretty much mid table quality. looking at our last 10 games we have 7 points out of 3 games against bottom 8 teams 2 points out of 4 games against middle 8 teams 0 points out of 3 games against top 8 teams. looks like now we are playing teams below and around us our form is appearing to change - win against Doncaster or Barnsley would change these stats considerbaly for the positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It tends to be seperated by money, as most divisions are, with the more you have, the further up the league you are. However, the Championship is as much about form as anything else, get on a good run and you shoot up the league and stay there on confidence, as we did, and similarly, go and a bad run and you drop like a stone, as we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClement Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 The quality of the opposition point is very valid. A lot of our last 8 ganmes will be against top 8 teams, so we need to pick up points in our next 6 matches. As for why the club isnt progressing, only 4/5 of the players who played on Saturday were regulars in the team last season maybe less if you exclude those injured last season, so we are not building with any continuity and adding to a firm base, like say Norwich have done. I bet we start next season with yet another different set of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Do we change our approach against the teams higher in the league? The only reason I say this is I remember watching the Burnley game and wondering why we'd gone backwards and started lumping hopeful balls forward again rather than play with the style we had been playing - result was inevitable even when 1-0 up we invited so much pressure that it was bound to happen. Are we sending the team out with a 'must not lose' attitude for the top teams and a 'go win' attuned for the lower teams? Possibly not but would explain the disparity and the performances. Could also be explained simply by the fact we're not good enough to compete against the top teams but nobody would have said that back in October. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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