When the going gets tough

[The Ram]

Complete and utter tosh. I haven't 'fallen in love with the name', I merely appreciate the value that the name has in these parts.

More importantly, beyond that, I listen to what propper football men tell me and add a large slice of common sense when weighing things up.

Do I listen to the ramblings of bitter, told-you-so, non-league nigel protagonists just looking to add weight to their argument, or to people who play and manage in the game with no such axe to grind? Errrrm, not really a contest is it?!

You are wrong on so many levels, but you argue round and round in circles coming out with the same stuff, ignoring any counter debate, so what's the point?

Hey, even with this Cywka crap you were insisting that BC never slagged players off publicly, just to try and tip your argument. Where were you last week when Roy Mac was recalling the headline with Clough calling him a disgrace?

Lower leagues were fine for Clough and Taylor, just as they have been for countless other managers learning the ropes, so you are just completely wrong once again on that score.

You are the one with the blinkers mate. You can't get over your initial non-league Nigel arguments and are now twisting and turning every issue and decision to back up your point.

What are you trying to achieve in all this?

Well that told me didn't it? You have your opinion and I have mine.

Just to add though I have been a staunch supporter of Clough. It has only been in the last 2 weeks that I have had a pop due to dire dire results ON the pitch. You quote "You can't get over your initial non-league Nigel arguments and are now twisting and turning every issue and decision to back up your point." The facts are Pete I never once criticised Nigel for his non-league back ground on here or any other message board over the previous two years! I posted as The Big Ram on DET and unless there is another The Ram on here, I have been one of Clough's staunchest supporters! Over on SSA 2 weeks ago I decided enough was enough, and now I am writing what I currently believe. I hope I am proved wrong and Clough goes on to win the next 10 games, but can you honestly see it with the backing he is not getting from GSE and the clueless performances we are suffering?

To answer your last question "What are you trying to achieve in all this?"

Nothing matey, I'm writing my opinions on message boards that is all, no big hidden agenda or connections to anyone or anthing, no conspiracy theories, just my personal opinions.

I completely stick by what I wrote.

[GboroRam]

Pete, Ram, Smiffy, Rigamortis et al: stop it. Or the cards will be out.

Just behave yourselves and stop making it personal.

[The Ram]

Pete, Ram, Smiffy, Rigamortis et al: stop it. Or the cards will be out.

Just behave yourselves and stop making it personal.

I don't like being threatened with a ban or whatever! Please point out where I have written anything untoward or been personal or attacked anyone? If anything the attack was on me. My replies are always courteous and polite. :confused:

[PeteDerby]

Just listen to yourself pal, no one knows anything but your fictional manager mate and you.

Do you still have a cuddle blanket as well .

The point you so so so obviously miss in all this, is that there is no money, and there will be none this season, at least.

The team has to be built and made frugally, Clough knew this , on his own admission, its no good now saying he needs cash to do it now, sort of admitting he is not good enough hey.

He can not do it, so it is time for someone else to try, simple as that, you may fancy Div1, not many others do

I'll ignore the dig, Smiffy and just comment on the rest.

How on earth can you say I of all people miss the point that there's no money, when I've been banging on about it for about 2 and a half years?

Why is another manager going to succeed in making a silk purse out of the sows ear when Clough can't?

Why on earth would a better manager come in and take the 'poisoned challice'? (as described by the guy you want to call fictional, but would be a serious contender for the job in the real world)

[smiffy]

I'll ignore the sausageish dig, Smiffy and just comment on the rest.

How on earth can you say I of all people miss the point that there's no money, when I've been banging on about it for about 2 and a half years?

Why is another manager going to succeed in making a silk purse out of the sows ear when Clough can't?

Why on earth would a better manager come in and take the 'poisoned challice'? (as described by the guy you want to call fictional, but would be a serious contender for the job in the real world)

OkPete, but on the same hand you can not say that a new man would not pick us up, didnt Nigel do it, Jan 8th was it he came in, and we where in trouble.

Why do you persist in saying no one else could do the same ?

[WorksopRam]

Come on lads.

Let's just calm it down a bit and take our tops off...

[GboroRam]

I don't like being threatened with a ban or whatever! Please point out where I have written anything untoward or been personal or attacked anyone? If anything the attack was on me. My replies are always courteous and polite. :confused:

It was a general comment that, in my opinion, you all could be nicer to each other. Its valentines day - show a little love.

[smiffy]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRy42B51PXyAnmTTwWHnQ0SS0SUfJbKJy80zsPx9WLy95lpyVtkUQ

[dcfcdavecov]

Come on lads.

Let's just calm it down a bit and take our tops off...

Woohoo yeah!!! Let's do this boyfriend!!

http://xdb.xanga.com/f66d823550731154443012/b115499390

[dcfcdavecov]

Damn you smiffy!!:mad:

[Gary Teale]

When the going gets tough, the tough gets going, wow I think I could make this into a song.

[Boycie]

This forum aint Jerry Springer you know. No feckers going on the pole!

[Bris Vegas]

I'll ignore the dig, Smiffy and just comment on the rest.

How on earth can you say I of all people miss the point that there's no money, when I've been banging on about it for about 2 and a half years?

Why is another manager going to succeed in making a silk purse out of the sows ear when Clough can't?

Why on earth would a better manager come in and take the 'poisoned challice'? (as described by the guy you want to call fictional, but would be a serious contender for the job in the real world)

But like you said, there are many managers that would jump at the chance to manage DCFC.

I know you have strong feeling for Clough, perhaps too strong, but why can't you admit that out of the 55 managers below us in the football league there are about 30 with better records than Clough, and that would jump at the chance to manage DCFC. He didn't warrant the job in the first place, and is extremely lucky to still have it.

You make out no-one could do a better job.. Another poster, in his opinion of course, believes Mourinho or SAF couldn't do a better job.. That's insinuating that Clough is on par with the best managers on the planet.

Clough is no-where near as good as the likes of George Burley, Roberto Martinez, Owen Coyle, Dave Jones, Mick McCarthy, Paul Lambert, Billy Davies, Ian Holloway etc.. Who all built great CCC squads on next to nothing.. I've accepted this, so now I'll judge him when he's finally given money so I can compare him to the likes of Jewell, Neil Warnock, Nigel Pearson, Sven etc..

[GboroRam]

This forum aint Jerry Springer you know. No feckers going on the pole!

Leave Cywka out of this.

[Boycie]

Leave Cywka out of this.

*badum tish!*

[The Ram]

But like you said, there are many managers that would jump at the chance to manage DCFC.

I know you have strong feeling for Clough, perhaps too strong, but why can't you admit that out of the 55 managers below us in the football league there are about 30 with better records than Clough, and that would jump at the chance to manage DCFC. He didn't warrant the job in the first place, and is extremely lucky to still have it.

You make out no-one could do a better job.. Another poster, in his opinion of course, believes Mourinho or SAF couldn't do a better job.. That's insinuating that Clough is on par with the best managers on the planet.

Clough is no-where near as good as the likes of George Burley, Roberto Martinez, Owen Coyle, Dave Jones, Mick McCarthy, Paul Lambert, Billy Davies, Ian Holloway etc.. Who all built great CCC squads on next to nothing.. I've accepted this, so now I'll judge him when he's finally given money so I can compare him to the likes of Jewell, Neil Warnock, Nigel Pearson, Sven etc..

I spent over 2 years hoping Clough would come good, I have backed him 100% till the unprofessional outburst against Cwkwa, unfortunately he hasn't, and there are many Manager's out there who are obviously better imo. (if that is allowed?)

[PeteDerby]

Well that told me didn't it? You have your opinion and I have mine.

Just to add though I have been a staunch supporter of Clough. It has only been in the last 2 weeks that I have had a pop due to dire dire results ON the pitch. You quote "You can't get over your initial non-league Nigel arguments and are now twisting and turning every issue and decision to back up your point." The facts are Pete I never once criticised Nigel for his non-league back ground on here or any other message board over the previous two years! I posted as The Big Ram on DET and unless there is another The Ram on here, I have been one of Clough's staunchest supporters! Over on SSA 2 weeks ago I decided enough was enough, and now I am writing what I currently believe. I hope I am proved wrong and Clough goes on to win the next 10 games, but can you honestly see it with the backing he is not getting from GSE and the clueless performances we are suffering?

To answer your last question "What are you trying to achieve in all this?"

Nothing matey, I'm writing my opinions on message boards that is all, no big hidden agenda or connections to anyone or anthing, no conspiracy theories, just my personal opinions.

I completely stick by what I wrote.

I apologise for lumping you in with the non-league Nigel movement. I do remember you as The Big Ram and as a good contributor.

To yourself and Smiffy on the changing the manager, I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of us winning the next ten games under Clough or indeed any manager.

You are right that we're kinda stuck with what we've got due to the GSE 'plan' of somehow getting better without spending any money.

Maybe we could get the temporary boost in form that can sometimes coincide with a change of manager.

Equally, we could get more of the same, followed by a return to the instability that comes to all clubs that constantly chop and change their manager every time results go against them.

We all seem to agree that the underlying problem is lack of enough strength in depth. Where we seem to disagree is on the benefit of changing the manager without changing the underlying cause.

Would Sam Allardyce suddenly be able to throw 3 years championship experience into Cywka, Bailey, Brayford and Davies. Could he shave 5 years off Savage and Roberts age or make Bueno 'grow a pair' and stop whimping out whenever the going gets tough?

Could he remove Barker's injury any more than he can put another six months match practice into Addison, Davis and Porter? Could he somehow re-programme Pearson, Bywater and Leacock into stopping doing the things that have kept them as nearly men thus far throughout their careers, no matter which manager they've played under?

The answer is, of course not.

So, OK, a new manager might play a 442 and make substitutions more quickly when things aren't going right. And, OK, he might have a few more contacts than Nigel Clough in terms of getting the nod on good players.

Then again he might not - and he certainly won't be able to get hold of the money they'll want for wages, nor the fees their club's would want for loan or permanent signings.

Those are the reasons why I think supporting the status quo in terms of management - although it's by no means perfect - is the best thing for us all to do.

So, apologies again for any antagonistic comments - it's purely out of frustration, chaps. And, Smiffy, I'm not a bullsh1tter so please stop insinuating that I am.

[Gary Teale]

I don't care he came from the conference myself I just don't think he is doing the job very well and find him very very negative but would our club actually have appointed a manager who has been managing at that level however well if his name wasn't Clough and give him lots of time really? I couldn't see us getting in the exeter boss when they were top of the conference, or the stevenage boss.

[PeteDerby]

I don't care he came from the conference myself I just don't think he is doing the job very well and find him very very negative but would our club actually have appointed a manager who has been managing at that level however well if his name wasn't Clough and give him lots of time really? I couldn't see us getting in the exeter boss when they were top of the conference, or the stevenage boss.

Mate, read the points I made about the players and tell me why a new manager can change those things?

I'm not having a dig, I just genuinely don't understand why anyone thinks changing the manager will change the issues and individual short-comings of our squad of players.

[WilkoRam]

I apologise for lumping you in with the non-league Nigel movement. I do remember you as The Big Ram and as a good contributor.

To yourself and Smiffy on the changing the manager, I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of us winning the next ten games under Clough or indeed any manager.

You are right that we're kinda stuck with what we've got due to the GSE 'plan' of somehow getting better without spending any money.

Maybe we could get the temporary boost in form that can sometimes coincide with a change of manager.

Equally, we could get more of the same, followed by a return to the instability that comes to all clubs that constantly chop and change their manager every time results go against them.

We all seem to agree that the underlying problem is lack of enough strength in depth. Where we seem to disagree is on the benefit of changing the manager without changing the underlying cause.

Would Sam Allardyce suddenly be able to throw 3 years championship experience into Cywka, Bailey, Brayford and Davies. Could he shave 5 years off Savage and Roberts age or make Bueno 'grow a pair' and stop whimping out whenever the going gets tough?

Could he remove Barker's injury any more than he can put another six months match practice into Addison, Davis and Porter? Could he somehow re-programme Pearson, Bywater and Leacock into stopping doing the things that have kept them as nearly men thus far throughout their careers, no matter which manager they've played under?

The answer is, of course not.

So, OK, a new manager might play a 442 and make substitutions more quickly when things aren't going right. And, OK, he might have a few more contacts than Nigel Clough in terms of getting the nod on good players.

Then again he might not - and he certainly won't be able to get hold of the money they'll want for wages, nor the fees their club's would want for loan or permanent signings.

Those are the reasons why I think supporting the status quo in terms of management - although it's by no means perfect - is the best thing for us all to do.

So, apologies again for any antagonistic comments - it's purely out of frustration, chaps. And, Smiffy, I'm not a bullsh1tter so please stop insinuating that I am.

Ah that's the Pete I started to like chatting to on here. No putting people into little pigeon holes and calling people Clough-Haters or Anti-Clough. You argued the points and I felt that, although it's clear what side of the fence you sit on in terms of Nigel, it was very fair.

I agree that another manager might be able to get more players due to contacts in the game but there's no point if we can't afford them. What I would suggest is that there are managers out there who's contacts and scouting stretch further and can pick out a cheap foreign bargain. I don't see Nigel being able to do that. I like the idea of a strong English/British core but that costs money, more money than the equivalent talent from abroad.

If the board aren't prepared to put up the cash needed for Nigel to get the players he wants then they should have got a manager in with more contacts stretching further afield. They haven't they now find themselves in a stick or bust situation. They can't sack him without getting even more fan backlash and they can't provide him with the money he needs.