When the going gets tough

[The Ram]

I apologise for lumping you in with the non-league Nigel movement. I do remember you as The Big Ram and as a good contributor.

To yourself and Smiffy on the changing the manager, I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of us winning the next ten games under Clough or indeed any manager.

You are right that we're kinda stuck with what we've got due to the GSE 'plan' of somehow getting better without spending any money.

Maybe we could get the temporary boost in form that can sometimes coincide with a change of manager.

Equally, we could get more of the same, followed by a return to the instability that comes to all clubs that constantly chop and change their manager every time results go against them.

We all seem to agree that the underlying problem is lack of enough strength in depth. Where we seem to disagree is on the benefit of changing the manager without changing the underlying cause.

Would Sam Allardyce suddenly be able to throw 3 years championship experience into Cywka, Bailey, Brayford and Davies. Could he shave 5 years off Savage and Roberts age or make Bueno 'grow a pair' and stop whimping out whenever the going gets tough?

Could he remove Barker's injury any more than he can put another six months match practice into Addison, Davis and Porter? Could he somehow re-programme Pearson, Bywater and Leacock into stopping doing the things that have kept them as nearly men thus far throughout their careers, no matter which manager they've played under?

The answer is, of course not.

So, OK, a new manager might play a 442 and make substitutions more quickly when things aren't going right. And, OK, he might have a few more contacts than Nigel Clough in terms of getting the nod on good players.

Then again he might not - and he certainly won't be able to get hold of the money they'll want for wages, nor the fees their club's would want for loan or permanent signings.

Those are the reasons why I think supporting the status quo in terms of management - although it's by no means perfect - is the best thing for us all to do.

So, apologies again for any antagonistic comments - it's purely out of frustration, chaps. And, Smiffy, I'm not a bullsh1tter so please stop insinuating that I am.

Nice one Pete, thanks, and a very good reply as usual, I know where you are coming from and I agree in the main, and apologise for having a go as you were sticking up for Nigel and I admire that loyalty.

I've not totally given up on Clough, whereas The Yanks :mad:

I shall be listening to the phone in later, and might call up if I hear Radio Derby trying to stir things up against Derby.

.

[Bris Vegas]

Mate, read the points I made about the players and tell me why a new manager can change those things?

I'm not having a dig, I just genuinely don't understand why anyone thinks changing the manager will change the issues and individual short-comings of our squad of players.

This only applies if the current manager is not getting the best out of his team?

Kenny Dalglish has improved Liverpools fortunes. Meireles looks a class player now. Kuyt plays more central..

Crystal Palace have picked up points in the last few weeks since the change in manager.

Harry Redknapp changed the fortunes of Spurs when he took over from Ramos

IMO Clough got more out of Teale and Savage than PJ ever did.

A change in manager can change a player.. The same applies when a player transfers from one club to another, can he improve? Of course he can..

Simple question is do people belive NC is getting the best out of his players? If not, are there managers out there who can?

[Gary Teale]

I totally agree that these players aren't good enough, I have argued they weren't the last 3 summers to get told players like green are some of the best in the division by many. Managers are judged on there decisions. He is also there to motivate and organise the team. We look unmotivated and unorganized, Clough decided to keep Bywater, pearson, green he named the last two as players to build the side around, split savs contract up so we had him this year, he signed roberts, porter, croft, martin and some good ones I like brayford and bailey, barker is steady as well.

[Gary Teale]

Stupid phone just stopped working so I will finish. Clough is not doing well enough in to many areas, if the players aren't good enough which we agree on get them out as I'm pretty sure Bywater, green, pearson and sav aren't on pittance. I don't expect us to be pushing at the top. Just more progress than has been had, a style of play that the moment things go wrong we just don't shut up shop and hit balls into the corners. Clough first thing he said was build from the back, he has spent the money he has had at the back, we can't defend after 2 years.

[rigamortis]

This only applies if the current manager is not getting the best out of his team?

Kenny Dalglish has improved Liverpools fortunes. Meireles looks a class player now. Kuyt plays more central..

Crystal Palace have picked up points in the last few weeks since the change in manager.

Harry Redknapp changed the fortunes of Spurs when he took over from Ramos

IMO Clough got more out of Teale and Savage than PJ ever did.

A change in manager can change a player.. The same applies when a player transfers from one club to another, can he improve? Of course he can..

Simple question is do people belive NC is getting the best out of his players? If not, are there managers out there who can?

I think it's very harsh if he loses his job under these circumstances.

I think it's very harsh that Derby fans are seemingly ready to stick the knife in.

I've listened to most of his interviews lately and I'll tell you what. It's a sick world if he gets fired for being honest.

Whatever is written on here, the guy is not stupid, he was one of the most intelligent footballers of his generation, I think he might have even torn Derby apart with his passing and goals once or twice over the seasons?? - I'm ducking ;-)

He's got to have time to make his mistakes and he's got to have at least some cash to be able to improve the quality of the squad.

He brought a group of players to the club and had to give them the chance (all apart from Martin) , some have taken it, others not so much, he'll already know the ones he wants to keep.

I just hope he gets some money to spend on loans because we were really poor first half at Leicester, even Shaun Barker had a couple of minutes where he wouldn't show for the ball. Not one ball played with pace, everything dollied backwards. Maybe we need someone like Buxton to go smashing into a centre forward, maybe Miles doing the same in midfield... we need to scrap.

Confidence is shot and goals and leadership are needed.

NC is not the problem. He's may seem too bloody stubborn for his own good, but he is not the problem.

[Ramalama]

At the moment we aren't playing to our player's strengths at all. We've seen that when we pass and move they can play really well, but since our bad run started we've been playing more and more defensive in every game. This isn't our strength, we haven't got anyone in midfield who could tackle a paper bag. So telling them to lump it forward and defend isn't going to work, we need to defend a lead by holding onto the ball, the way Leicester did in the last 10 minutes of the first half.

I remember before last season started we tried keeping the ball and playing pass and move, but a few games into the eason Nigel lost his nerve and resorted back to hoofing it and trying to defend. We should still be encouraging players to keep the ball even after 10 bad results, it's the only way we will pick up points.

[footymadme]

injury

Stupid phone just stopped working so I will finish. Clough is not doing well enough in to many areas, if the players aren't good enough which we agree on get them out as I'm pretty sure Bywater, green, pearson and sav aren't on pittance. I don't expect us to be pushing at the top. Just more progress than has been had, a style of play that the moment things go wrong we just don't shut up shop and hit balls into the corners. Clough first thing he said was build from the back, he has spent the money he has had at the back, we can't defend after 2 years.

has prevented n.c hardly ever being able to put the same defence out

twce ............

he has made mistakes , like saturday ...but he will get it right i just know

it.

the reason i believe that such as martin has not been brought on is

because he was bought for the future and n.c in the last few weeks

has been desperate for a win , def not the best of time to bring a

young lad on and the main reason he is at n.county.

i will forever stick up for n.c as i have stated in previous post , but..

i firmly believe should he come thru all of this , and lets face it , the

flak aimed at him right now is fuc#in HEAVY .. he will be a better manager

for it and he will , given some money and having the right players avail

turn it round ......

my prediction is that we would finish half way up the league come may

and i stick by that..................................

[smiffy]

Pete, you may or may not be a bullshitter, I don`t know you from Adam, but are you seriously saying that you could come out with any similar statement, and expect everyone to take it in willy nilly, come on now do me a favour.

Did the person specifically say don`t quote me, if so that in itself instills caution, or it would in me.

Using personages is very old hat in trying to get ones point across, I do not doubt your sincerity, I may believe you to be naive,and a tad starry eyed by a name, but you are not alone in that belief.

If you doubt what someone says, does it automatically mean you are calling them a liar, don`t think so:)

Anyway , shake hands, and we will start again, friends yeah

[PeteDerby]

Pete, you may or may not be a bullshitter, I don`t know you from Adam, but are you seriously saying that you could come out with any similar statement, and expect everyone to take it in willy nilly, come on now do me a favour.

Did the person specifically say don`t quote me, if so that in itself instills caution, or it would in me.

Using personages is very old hat in trying to get ones point across, I do not doubt your sincerity, I may believe you to be naive,and a tad starry eyed by a name, but you are not alone in that belief.

If you doubt what someone says, does it automatically mean you are calling them a liar, don`t think so:)

Anyway , shake hands, and we will start again, friends yeah

No chance - school gates 4 oclock - don't bother with yer mates as mine are harder and will pan 'em.

Oh, alright then, cordial posting resumed

[froggg]

http://www.fourpointsvilla.com/images/gay%20men%20cuddle

:D

[WilkoRam]

http://jal01.free.fr/images/manhug

[PeteDerby]

chortle!

[Kevin Hector]

I think you're missing the point, its not the fans who've got to roll up their sleeves, its the players. They don't do it for Clough and they haven't got the talent to produce results any other way.

[WilkoRam]

There's an interview on eurosport with Harry Redknapp, a manager who in my opinion gets the most from his players and the hand he's dealt. Try and find it and listen to what he says re how management is about common sense, encourage players, play them where they play best. He goes on to say there's no point shouting at a player all game, if they don't know what they're doing then they shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place. He's all about encouraging them.

It's the style of management I think we need at Derby especially with a young and inexperienced team who's confidence can be fragile.

[smiffy]

There's an interview on eurosport with Harry Redknapp, a manager who in my opinion gets the most from his players and the hand he's dealt. Try and find it and listen to what he says re how management is about common sense, encourage players, play them where they play best. He goes on to say there's no point shouting at a player all game, if they don't know what they're doing then they shouldn't be on the pitch in the first place. He's all about encouraging them.

It's the style of management I think we need at Derby especially with a young and inexperienced team who's confidence can be fragile.

He may not raup at the players, but Arry dont arf, efn blind it on the bench:D

[trooper]

i like clough and have argued his corner for months in the pubs and games, but even i know have realised that he is a little out of his depth, u can not get rid of commons ( our main playmaker - i know he had no choice) and leave players like cywka and bueno on the bench.. they are the type of players who can just do that little trick that could spark the fans and boost a little bit of fire into the players bellies,,

all it seems to me is we need that little ignition to spark, or a really hard crunching tackle, something to make the players care about winning and losing, but im afraid under clough it does not seem to be on the horizon!!

maybe a new manager coming in with new ideas and new training regime(cos non of our lot look fit) could spark something... someone with a few connections to get some half decent loan signings if thts how we have to go about things.

[WilkoRam]

http://www.dcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10270~2293740,00.html

Whilst I love the positive message that it's a brilliant week to look forward to and an opportunity to get wins I can help but wonder what happened to skill, ability and creating chances in regards to the qualities needed to win the important games.

Yes we need to be tough, we need to battle but we also need that touch of class otherwise it'll be a long, hard, worrying end to the season.

Hopefully we can see some more of players like Bueno and Cywka rather than a 5 man midfield full of solid players.