When the going gets tough

[PeteDerby]

Who`s view:rolleyes:

Child.

[WilkoRam]

Child.

Although I don't agree that you made it up and it seems a very plausible conversation to have, it seems odd to call him a child for asking who said it.

If I typed that I'd spoken to someone who said GSE have told Nigel there is money to spend and that he won't provide enough targets for them to work with. That behind the scenes GSE are losing patients and are annoyed that their seen as the villains when they are prepared to spend. Would you not ask for the source?

I don't doubt what you've written or necessarily believe the hypothetical example I've written I just think that asking to confirm the story is something most will do, even you if you're honest.

[smiffy]

Child.

Jeremy ?, what team does, did he manage?

[ARamsFan]

It is likely that my opinion will be disregarded, but I feel that Clough should leave, of his own volition. Little real progress has been made (apart from the 'purple' patch, and I am also aware that he has had to drastically reduce the wage bill), and the fact he constantly regurgitates the 'Cywka-gate' incident is enough proof that he is highly inexperienced.

[WilkoRam]

It is likely that my opinion will be disregarded, but I feel that Clough should leave, of his own volition. Little real progress has been made (apart from the 'purple' patch, and I am also aware that he has had to drastically reduce the wage bill), and the fact he constantly regurgitates the 'Cywka-gate' incident is enough proof that he is highly inexperienced.

Sorry on a side point, did anyone else cringe when Nigel brought up Portsmouth again pre-match? It should over with now, come Monday that needs to be out of the players system so the can move on. Then he said it's behind us now at the end of the interview.

[PeteDerby]

Smiffy was again implying that I made it up, hence the 'child' comment.

Guys, it's just another opinion, but maybe with him being a current manager of a club at Derby's level, that opinion carries a bit more weight than we fans, given that he does the job and we don't.

But look, I don't really care whether smiffy or anyone else believes what I posted or agrees with the view, I'm just sharing a conversation via the BB that I think is relevant to the debate.

Someone stifling that debate by trying to discredit the validity of the conversation is, in my view, just easier for a Clough-hater to handle rather than considering that their view might just be wrong.

Oh, and just to stir the hornets nest a little further, on the Cwyka issue he just laughed and said the whole thing was rediculous, blown out of proportion by people who either don't understand football or with an axe to grind against Clough.

If the cap fits.....

[smiffy]

Smiffy was again implying that I made it up, hence the 'child' comment.

Guys, it's just another opinion, but maybe with him being a current manager of a club at Derby's level, that opinion carries a bit more weight than we fans, given that he does the job and we don't.

But look, I don't really care whether smiffy or anyone else believes what I posted or agrees with the view, I'm just sharing a conversation via the BB that I think is relevant to the debate.

Someone stifling that debate by trying to discredit the validity of the conversation is, in my view, just easier for a Clough-hater to handle rather than considering that their view might just be wrong.

Oh, and just to stir the hornets nest a little further, on the Cwyka issue he just laughed and said the whole thing was rediculous, blown out of proportion by people who either don't understand football or with an axe to grind against Clough.

If the cap fits.....

And of coarse it could not be spin concocted and put out to ease the situation, jeez that could never happen could it.

[Bris Vegas]

Had an interesting conversation last night with a manager of another Championship club about loans. He was saying how Yakubu turned the game for Leicester - "and that's what you get for a £500K loan fee and paying £50K a week in wages".

His club has similar issues affording loan fees, but "if you want to progress you have to pay the going rate". They've brought a few in themselves.

On Derby he said managers generally regard it as one of the top jobs outside of the obvious contenders in the Premiership - he'd jump at the chance, but not with the current set up, describing it as a poisoned challice. He also reckoned that it hasn't bottomed out yet and more tough times look to be ahead for us if we don't bring more players in.

On Nigel, he said he thought he was the man to sort it out and that he'd already worked wonders - and the board must know it - but wondered if the fans would turn on him if results keep going the way they are.

Make of that what you will.

Don't disagree with most of that..

Other than the point about Yakubu turning the game... He didn't, Leicester were fully in control. A statement like that makes out it was a quality strike against the run of play.

Listening to NCs comments, I felft sorry for him, despite making countless mistakes regarding personnel, formations, tactics etc.. I want him to carry on, I want to see what he can do with some decent money..

He must count himself extremely lucky to have this job though.. His record beforehand didn't warrant him getting the job, and his record during his time at Derby is poor.. If it was any other board, manager etc. With this record he'd be gone.

And to say that any football manager has more knowledge than all of us put together isn't particularly correct. Therefore I wouldn't automatically believe a statement from another football manager, especially in regards to a club that is not his.. It's also common knowledge that no other football managers 'dish the dirt' on fellow managers regarding their records etc. As it's a sign of disrespect..

Proof of this was Roy Hodgson.. He had the backing of all fellow managers, despite dong a poor job with a fairly gifted squad.

[Flaps]

Smiffy was again implying that I made it up, hence the 'child' comment.

Guys, it's just another opinion, but maybe with him being a current manager of a club at Derby's level, that opinion carries a bit more weight than we fans, given that he does the job and we don't.

But look, I don't really care whether smiffy or anyone else believes what I posted or agrees with the view, I'm just sharing a conversation via the BB that I think is relevant to the debate.

Someone stifling that debate by trying to discredit the validity of the conversation is, in my view, just easier for a Clough-hater to handle rather than considering that their view might just be wrong.

Oh, and just to stir the hornets nest a little further, on the Cwyka issue he just laughed and said the whole thing was rediculous, blown out of proportion by people who either don't understand football or with an axe to grind against Clough.

If the cap fits.....

The irony is you two have a stand off similar to the fans on the board, no offence but why should people believe you or on the other side why shouldn't they? Is it the boards fault for not putting the money in or did Clough actually ask for anyone decent? We don't know either way.

[SilentRam]

Had an interesting conversation last night with a manager of another Championship club about loans. He was saying how Yakubu turned the game for Leicester - "and that's what you get for a £500K loan fee and paying £50K a week in wages".

His club has similar issues affording loan fees, but "if you want to progress you have to pay the going rate". They've brought a few in themselves.

On Derby he said managers generally regard it as one of the top jobs outside of the obvious contenders in the Premiership - he'd jump at the chance, but not with the current set up, describing it as a poisoned challice. He also reckoned that it hasn't bottomed out yet and more tough times look to be ahead for us if we don't bring more players in.

On Nigel, he said he thought he was the man to sort it out and that he'd already worked wonders - and the board must know it - but wondered if the fans would turn on him if results keep going the way they are.

Make of that what you will.

If he is told you, then why not name him? Its not as if the comments are the type he would get in trouble over

[PeteDerby]

The irony is you two have a stand off similar to the fans on the board, no offence but why should people believe you or on the other side why shouldn't they? Is it the boards fault for not putting the money in or did Clough actually ask for anyone decent? We don't know either way.

And I don't care either way. To repeat, it was a conversation that I shared as it's relevant to to the debate.

I hardly expect anyone to respond to it by saying "well I've been slagging Clough off for months, but now I've seen the light"!

With regards to your point, you're right, we don't know for sure. But is there a weight of likelihood that someone who has played at the highest level of the game, and been raised and coached by one of the greatest managers in the history of the game, would know that his success will stand or fall by the quality of players in the team he manages?

[Flaps]

And I don't care either way. To repeat, it was a conversation that I shared as it's relevant to to the debate.

I hardly expect anyone to respond to it by saying "well I've been slagging Clough off for months, but now I've seen the light"!

With regards to your point, you're right, we don't know for sure. But is there a weight of likelihood that someone who has played at the highest level of the game, and been raised and coached by one of the greatest managers in the history of the game, would know that his success will stand or fall by the quality of players in the team he manages?

He would know that the quality of the players is important but the question is does Clough think Pringle and Roberts are quality players and looked to those before others thinking they were the better options or is it just what the boards limits allow him to pick. No one knows, what we do know is Clough, not the board, picks the 11 that go out there and tells them how to play, the 11 we can put together isn't the best in the league but should being playing better then they are. Nigel's job is to get the best out of what we have and at the moment he isn't doing that.

All that said I don't think we should sack Clough, least not yet, the next few games and the tatics we play are going to be very important for me.

[PeteDerby]

He would know that the quality of the players is important but the question is does Clough think Pringle and Roberts are quality players and looked to those before others thinking they were the better options or is it just what the boards limits allow him to pick. No one knows, what we do know is Clough, not the board, picks the 11 that go out there and tells them how to play, the 11 we can put together isn't the best in the league but should being playing better then they are. Nigel's job is to get the best out of what we have and at the moment he isn't doing that.

All that said I don't think we should sack Clough, least not yet, the next few games and the tatics we play are going to be very important for me.

Please don't take this as me having a go at you - I'm not - just the arguments you put forward here, as they sum up my frustration with the 'anti' movement.

Does anyone seriously believe that Clough would a). not realise the limitations of players like Pringle and Roberts b). buy them if he had the option of getting better players in?

You say we don't know? If you were a betting man, where would you put your money? Clough and Metgod can't tell the difference between an Ilkeston town freebie and, say Tommy Smith, or GSE won't give them the money to buy the latter?

Nigel isn't getting the best out of the team, I would venture, because they haven't got enough experienced talent to get the results, and the lack of results is battering the whole team's confidence. Listen to players, other managers, professional pundits, they all say the same thing and managers can't just wave a magic wand.

There surely can be no doubt that any professional footballer has the technical talent to control a football or make a simple 10 yard pass? So why does our team appear incapable of doing that at the moment, when a couple of months ago virtually the same players were knocking it about like Brazilians?

Like all fans, I question a manager's tactics and team selections, whether it's Derby or England. 30,000 armchair experts is part of the whole thing, but in reality, we know fck all about managing a professional football club and would be a lot happier, I suggest, if we realised this from time to time!

What I do know is that Clough has been dealt a crap hand by virtue of GSE's lack of finances, so no matter how he shuffles it, he's always going to be making do. You're expecting him to beat a running flush with a pair and it ain't going to happen.

Why are the next few games and tactics going to tell you anything that we don't already know? The only way we're going to do anything different is by replacing Hulse and Commons, bolstering the defence, getting some pace into attack and midfield.

Without those additions he's going to be relying a hell of a lot on luck.

[Malmoram]

Please don't take this as me having a go at you - I'm not - just the arguments you put forward here, as they sum up my frustration with the 'anti' movement.

Does anyone seriously believe that Clough would a). not realise the limitations of players like Pringle and Roberts b). buy them if he had the option of getting better players in?

You say we don't know? If you were a betting man, where would you put your money? Clough and Metgod can't tell the difference between an Ilkeston town freebie and, say Tommy Smith, or GSE won't give them the money to buy the latter?

Nigel isn't getting the best out of the team, I would venture, because they haven't got enough experienced talent to get the results, and the lack of results is battering the whole team's confidence. Listen to players, other managers, professional pundits, they all say the same thing and managers can't just wave a magic wand.

There surely can be no doubt that any professional footballer has the technical talent to control a football or make a simple 10 yard pass? So why does our team appear incapable of doing that at the moment, when a couple of months ago virtually the same players were knocking it about like Brazilians?

Like all fans, I question a manager's tactics and team selections, whether it's Derby or England. 30,000 armchair experts is part of the whole thing, but in reality, we know fck all about managing a professional football club and would be a lot happier, I suggest, if we realised this from time to time!

What I do know is that Clough has been dealt a crap hand by virtue of GSE's lack of finances, so no matter how he shuffles it, he's always going to be making do. You're expecting him to beat a running flush with a pair and it ain't going to happen.

Why are the next few games and tactics going to tell you anything that we don't already know? The only way we're going to do anything different is by replacing Hulse and Commons, bolstering the defence, getting some pace into attack and midfield.

Without those additions he's going to be relying a hell of a lot on luck.

You have got it pretty much spot on...... on all counts. NC has only got the hand he has been dealt. Hopefully, we can get 2/3 loans in pretty soon to up the experience and skill level.

[The Ram]

Please don't take this as me having a go at you - I'm not - just the arguments you put forward here, as they sum up my frustration with the 'anti' movement.

Does anyone seriously believe that Clough would a). not realise the limitations of players like Pringle and Roberts b). buy them if he had the option of getting better players in?

You say we don't know? If you were a betting man, where would you put your money? Clough and Metgod can't tell the difference between an Ilkeston town freebie and, say Tommy Smith, or GSE won't give them the money to buy the latter?

Nigel isn't getting the best out of the team, I would venture, because they haven't got enough experienced talent to get the results, and the lack of results is battering the whole team's confidence. Listen to players, other managers, professional pundits, they all say the same thing and managers can't just wave a magic wand.

There surely can be no doubt that any professional footballer has the technical talent to control a football or make a simple 10 yard pass? So why does our team appear incapable of doing that at the moment, when a couple of months ago virtually the same players were knocking it about like Brazilians?

Like all fans, I question a manager's tactics and team selections, whether it's Derby or England. 30,000 armchair experts is part of the whole thing, but in reality, we know fck all about managing a professional football club and would be a lot happier, I suggest, if we realised this from time to time!

What I do know is that Clough has been dealt a crap hand by virtue of GSE's lack of finances, so no matter how he shuffles it, he's always going to be making do. You're expecting him to beat a running flush with a pair and it ain't going to happen.

Why are the next few games and tactics going to tell you anything that we don't already know? The only way we're going to do anything different is by replacing Hulse and Commons, bolstering the defence, getting some pace into attack and midfield.

Without those additions he's going to be relying a hell of a lot on luck.

Sorry Pete, but I think you have fell in love with the name Clough.

Nigel has bought badly (Croft Anderson Martin Roberts etc.) whereas other teams in similar situations to ours have bought better and wisely. (Blackpool last season?)

Forgetting GSE and their lack of "investment" Clough having spent 10 years in non-league football is imo out of his depth so to speak.

It's a bit like being in business for 10 years dealing at the lower end of the market place. When you move up into the bigger league of business, unfortunately you haven't got the same contacts any more, or the experience to deal with the better quality people, or in football terms the ability to compete with the Sven Goran Ericksson's who are prepared to get one over at any cost (eg holding back on Waghorn's loan) in order to get one over on future opposition.

If it was an ordinary business looking for a Manager, then, even compared to the massive amount DCFC spend on Football Manager's, Clough has been given the chance and is now not fullfilling the target. GSE aren't going to pay £5M for anyone, and Clough has taken on the job and seems very naive to the point of looking foolish at times. Glick is a spin merchant and GSE and the Investors must love the easy way they have conned us all, and the soft touch they have in Nigel.

Sorry to say this but the dream is over. Nigel son of God is not going to make it. He's had his chance and whilst back in November it looked promising, he has fluffed it.

[PeteDerby]

Sorry Pete, but I think you have fell in love with the name Clough.

Nigel has bought badly (Croft Anderson Martin Roberts etc.) whereas other teams in similar situations to ours have bought better and wisely. (Blackpool last season?)

Forgetting GSE and their lack of "investment" Clough having spent 10 years in non-league football is imo out of his depth so to speak.

It's a bit like being in business for 10 years dealing at the lower end of the market place. When you move up into the bigger league of business, unfortunately you haven't got the same contacts any more, or the experience to deal with the better quality people, or in football terms the ability to compete with the Sven Goran Ericksson's who are prepared to get one over at any cost (eg holding back on Waghorn's loan) in order to get one over on future opposition.

If it was an ordinary business looking for a Manager, then, even compared to the massive amount DCFC spend on Football Manager's, Clough has been given the chance and is now not fullfilling the target. GSE aren't going to pay £5M for anyone, and Clough has taken on the job and seems very naive to the point of looking foolish at times. Glick is a spin merchant and GSE and the Investors must love the easy way they have conned us all, and the soft touch they have in Nigel.

Sorry to say this but the dream is over. Nigel son of God is not going to make it. He's had his chance and whilst back in November it looked promising, he has fluffed it.

Complete and utter tosh. I haven't 'fallen in love with the name', I merely appreciate the value that the name has in these parts.

More importantly, beyond that, I listen to what propper football men tell me and add a large slice of common sense when weighing things up.

Do I listen to the ramblings of bitter, told-you-so, non-league nigel protagonists just looking to add weight to their argument, or to people who play and manage in the game with no such axe to grind? Errrrm, not really a contest is it?!

You are wrong on so many levels, but you argue round and round in circles coming out with the same stuff, ignoring any counter debate, so what's the point?

Hey, even with this Cywka crap you were insisting that BC never slagged players off publicly, just to try and tip your argument. Where were you last week when Roy Mac was recalling the headline with Clough calling him a disgrace?

Lower leagues were fine for Clough and Taylor, just as they have been for countless other managers learning the ropes, so you are just completely wrong once again on that score.

You are the one with the blinkers mate. You can't get over your initial non-league Nigel arguments and are now twisting and turning every issue and decision to back up your point.

What are you trying to achieve in all this?

[smiffy]

Complete and utter tosh. I haven't 'fallen in love with the name', I merely appreciate the value that the name has in these parts.

More importantly, beyond that, I listen to what propper football men tell me and add a large slice of common sense when weighing things up.

Do I listen to the ramblings of bitter, told-you-so, non-league nigel protagonists just looking to add weight to their argument, or to people who play and manage in the game with no such axe to grind? Errrrm, not really a contest is it?!

You are wrong on so many levels, but you argue round and round in circles coming out with the same stuff, ignoring any counter debate, so what's the point?

Hey, even with this Cywka crap you were insisting that BC never slagged players off publicly, just to try and tip your argument. Where were you last week when Roy Mac was recalling the headline with Clough calling him a disgrace?

Lower leagues were fine for Clough and Taylor, just as they have been for countless other managers learning the ropes, so you are just completely wrong once again on that score.

You are the one with the blinkers mate. You can't get over your initial non-league Nigel arguments and are now twisting and turning every issue and decision to back up your point.

What are you trying to achieve in all this?

Just listen to yourself pal, no one knows anything but your fictional manager mate and you.

Do you still have a cuddle blanket as well .

The point you so so so obviously miss in all this, is that there is no money, and there will be none this season, at least.

The team has to be built and made frugally, Clough knew this , on his own admission, its no good now saying he needs cash to do it now, sort of admitting he is not good enough hey.

He can not do it, so it is time for someone else to try, simple as that, you may fancy Div1, not many others do

[rigamortis]

Just listen to yourself pal, no one knows anything but your fictional manager mate and you.

Do you still have a cuddle blanket as well .

i'll take a ban - especially in the heat of the moment.

Smiffy - you are a wind up

A coward and a wind up.

Analyse that and bring on all the crap about freedom to post.

sounds like you'll only be happy if Derby fail?

How can that be?

[dcfcdavecov]

Taking a card for the team mate! Dedication that.

[smiffy]

i'll take a ban - especially in the heat of the moment.

Smiffy - you are a wind up

A coward and a wind up.

Analyse that and bring on all the crap about freedom to post.

sounds like you'll only be happy if Derby fail?

How can that be?

How does wanting Clough out mean I want Derby to fail ?, I say it means the complete opposite.