Relegation - such a bad thing?

[Asanovic]

The threat of relegation is now very real, and will be even more so if we lose tomorrow against Portsmouth. Any other club in our league position wouldn’t be worrying, but given the lack of investment, and eagerness to sell any player at the first opportunity, we are now left with a threadbare squad that will struggle to survive. Thing is, I’m actually starting to embrace the idea.

If we go down, it will give some of our younger players a chance to come through. I think players like Connor Doyle, Mark O’Brien and Callum Ball could get more first team exposure. Our current situation is stifling the development of players – we’re having to field as experienced a starting eleven as possible to stave off the threat of going down. Starting fresh in League One could see some of these players blossom. Addison aside, we haven’t had a good youth product come through for a long time now, and we won’t while ever we are this mid table/bottom half/bottom three fodder in the Championship. If we’re chasing a game, do you throw on someone with 200 games experience, or an academy product? I'm sick of seeing players like Anderson, Ben Davies etc coming in to the club with only a few years left of their career.

It will also mean we cut the deadwood. Players like Russell Anderson, Stephen Pearson and Lee Croft can be shipped out, and we look to bring in young talented footballers. I imagine Pearson and Anderson are on reasonably handsome wages too. Nigel Clough’s area of expertise is working with lower league players and developing them (John Brayford, James Bailey, Shaun Harrad) into good footballers. He knows the lower reaches well, and could get players that can be moulded. I still think NC will keep his job if we are relegated.

I don’t think the gates will change that much. Looking at 23,000 against Ipswich if we are performing well (ie, top 6), I imagine we would get good gates upward of this. We have one of the strongest fan bases in the UK. We won’t be getting 30,000’s, but it is what it is.

It could bring the feel good factor back. I don’t think we even had it when we went up, winning scrappily by the odd goal, and getting thumped in the Premiership. If we go on a decent run and are winning games, who cares what league we’re in? A win is a win is a win. If (so many if’s) we went down, and back up, I think our gates would be higher than they are now, because the new season in the Championship would be on the back of winning games and getting promoted.

Past record also tells us this is no bad thing. Whilst Leeds spent a few years down there, they rebuilt and are now in the promotion pack. Same with Man City. And Norwich. And, through really, really gritted teeth, same with forest. I know for every one of these stories there is a Charlton, Southampton or even Bradford, but it’s Friday, I’m going to the game tomorrow and I need some optimism in my life.

Thoughts?

[Gary Teale]

As someone whos in laws are all Sheff Wed fans it would be terrible, its isnt any easier to get rid of the dead wood as you put it and its harder to pay them as the money coming in is a lot less. Teams like Forest, Man City, The Foxes and Leeds have all done well as they invested heavily. Our lot would just have to cut costs even more. There are teams like Wed, Charlton, Luton, plymouth etc that havent faired so well

[Derby_Dave]

Agreed it would be a disaster. Not even to be contemplated.

[WilkoRam]

This is ridiculous in my opinion. It's the same thing that gets peddled out every time we face relegation. These comments came out when we were in the Prem 'It'll be a good thing, we'll cut the deadwood, it'll be better and we can come back stronger' yet we're struggling.

Make no mistake, if we get relegated we will be forced to cut more costs, reduce the wage bill even more in order that we're not overspending. Then end up a mid table league 1 side. It's disrespectful to league 1 to think we could go down and be comfortable with just youth players, there's good teams in that league as Leeds, Millwall and Norwich have shown by doing so well in the Championship after promotion. I think if we went down we would struggle to make an impact in that league too.

These comments frustrate me, and I'm sorry to be so annoyed with this post, but it the same things being peddled out when something goes badly.

"The summer is key"

"Relegation might not be so bad"

"It's a long term plan"

They're all forgetting the now and having faith in the future, it will all get better soon, the bad will result in something good.

[Gary Teale]

I think the teams who have come up doing well shows how hard it is to get out of league 1 and to get out of that league you have to be at the level of a midtable to top half champ team

[ramexpat]

How can relegation be a positive thing ,, sounds like your already giving the "Glick post season press conference" ,, Relegation is a big no no,, will not happen anyway COYR

[Asanovic]

As I said at the bottom of post, just trying to be optimistic. It won't be the wisest post seen on this forum, however, not too sure the following quote is much better:

'They're all forgetting the now and having faith in the future, it will all get better soon, the bad will result in something good.'

On what basis do you think things will get better? What, in the last few weeks, makes you think things will get better?

I don't think we could be comfortable in League One with youth players, but they're not getting a chance at this level - when will that ever change? If you want to see us breed youth, suggest how we do so in this mess.

[froggg]

I can remember making the trip to bournemouth last time we were relegated to the third div, we all thought we'd batter em..did we fook:eek::redface:

Third Division 1984-5

P W D L F A GD Pts

1 Bradford City 46 28 10 8 77 45 +32 94

2 Millwall 46 26 12 8 73 42 +31 90

3 Hull City 46 25 12 9 78 49 +29 87

4 Gillingham 46 25 8 13 80 62 +18 83

5 Bristol City 46 24 9 13 74 47 +27 81

6 Bristol Rovers 46 21 12 13 66 48 +18 75

7 Derby County 46 19 13 14 65 54 +11 70

8 York City 46 20 9 17 70 57 +13 69

9 Reading 46 19 12 15 68 62 +6 69

10 Bournemouth 46 19 11 16 57 46 +11 68

11 Walsall 46 18 13 15 58 52 +6 67

12 Rotherham United 46 18 11 17 55 55 +0 65

13 Brentford 46 16 14 16 62 64 -2 62

14 Doncaster Rovers 46 17 8 21 72 74 -2 59

15 Plymouth Argyle 46 15 14 17 62 65 -3 59

16 Wigan Athletic 46 15 14 17 60 64 -4 59

17 Bolton Wanderers 46 16 6 24 69 75 -6 54

18 Newport County 46 13 13 20 55 67 -12 52

19 Lincoln City 46 11 18 17 50 51 -1 51

20 Swansea City 46 12 11 23 53 80 -27 47

21 Burnley 46 11 13 22 60 73 -13 46

22 Orient 46 11 13 22 51 76 -25 46

23 Preston North End 46 13 7 26 51 100 -49 46

24 Cambridge United 46 4 9 33 37 95 -58 21

[Malmoram]

I can remember making the trip to bournemouth last time we were relegated to the third div, we all thought we'd batter em..did we fook:eek::redface:

Third Division 1984-5

P W D L F A GD Pts

1 Bradford City 46 28 10 8 77 45 +32 94

2 Millwall 46 26 12 8 73 42 +31 90

3 Hull City 46 25 12 9 78 49 +29 87

4 Gillingham 46 25 8 13 80 62 +18 83

5 Bristol City 46 24 9 13 74 47 +27 81

6 Bristol Rovers 46 21 12 13 66 48 +18 75

7 Derby County 46 19 13 14 65 54 +11 70

8 York City 46 20 9 17 70 57 +13 69

9 Reading 46 19 12 15 68 62 +6 69

10 Bournemouth 46 19 11 16 57 46 +11 68

11 Walsall 46 18 13 15 58 52 +6 67

12 Rotherham United 46 18 11 17 55 55 +0 65

13 Brentford 46 16 14 16 62 64 -2 62

14 Doncaster Rovers 46 17 8 21 72 74 -2 59

15 Plymouth Argyle 46 15 14 17 62 65 -3 59

16 Wigan Athletic 46 15 14 17 60 64 -4 59

17 Bolton Wanderers 46 16 6 24 69 75 -6 54

18 Newport County 46 13 13 20 55 67 -12 52

19 Lincoln City 46 11 18 17 50 51 -1 51

20 Swansea City 46 12 11 23 53 80 -27 47

21 Burnley 46 11 13 22 60 73 -13 46

22 Orient 46 11 13 22 51 76 -25 46

23 Preston North End 46 13 7 26 51 100 -49 46

24 Cambridge United 46 4 9 33 37 95 -58 21

It is crazy to think that relegation would not be a bad thing, but a couple of points from that period are that the next season we went up, and straight up again the season after.

The manager of Cambridge Utd who came down with us said at the time that their team was in a much better state than Derby to come straight back. Interesting to see where they finished and are now in the Conference (Luton were in the top division at that time and are also in the Conference now). It can be a slippery slope.

[Stimacked]

You are suggesting that being relegated would benifit the youth players and allow us to cut out the dead wood. No it would not. It would mean we were in even less of a position to turn down offers for Addison and Brayford. Pearson, Croft and Anderson would be unwanted by anyone and we would probably have to loan them out or pay them to leave.

If Ball, Hendrick and Connolly show they have the ability to play at a professional level, they will get there chances. They are still way down the developement stage before they could even think of being thrown in at a match against Tranmere.

If we are in a position where we are forced to play youth team players then it would be a sign that we are going bankrupt.

Going down now would be as equally disasterous to us as it has been for Sheffield Wednseday and Plymouth. Leicester had big financial backing to help them back up. Norwich have a sensible board and invested to help their current manager build a side capable of dominating that league.

Instantly we went down, every game would be a banana skin for us and we would expect to beat everyone. There would be no let up in the pressure on the players.

[Asanovic]

It doesn't matter what happens, because at the rate we are going, and the zero investment in the squad, we're heading for that league. So whether you think it's disastrous or not, it could well happen. Results go the wrong way tomorrow and we're four points on safety, running empty on confidence, and extremely low on quality.

Nearly every team below us in the league had either loans or permanent transfers before the window. They all have boosted their survival chances. All we have done is sell our best player (yes, I know we had to), and the only decent left back we have at the club.

[JohnClement]

These young players who are going to enable the Rams to rise like a phoenix from the ashes. Are they the same ones who just lost 3-1 at home to Southend in the league cup?

The following scenarios are more likely:

-Large drop in attendances and revenue

- Cannot get rid of high earners (because no one wants relegated players), and no one will match their salary.

-More cost cutting

-squad becomes even weaker

Arthur Cox got us out of the 3rd division, by buying quality experienced players not non league dross.

[ramsbottom]

It doesn't matter what happens, because at the rate we are going, and the zero investment in the squad, we're heading for that league. So whether you think it's disastrous or not, it could well happen. Results go the wrong way tomorrow and we're four points on safety, running empty on confidence, and extremely low on quality.

Nearly every team below us in the league had either loans or permanent transfers before the window. They all have boosted their survival chances. All we have done is sell our best player (yes, I know we had to), and the only decent left back we have at the club.

As much as I don't agree with the opening of this thread I definitely agree with you on this post.

[ElBeef]

I can see where you are coming from with this relegation idea. I have had chats about this with people aswell.

It's not really about relegation its more about having a fresh start with players. I too have used Norwich, Leeds & Florest as examples of clubs doing well when they have brought in lower league players. Thats all they have done never mind what division they were in. Are we not doing that now with the team we have.

I have always said that there are players in the lower leagues that are waiting to be found and could do a job at Derby. This im afraid is what the future holds for us, no more big signings just bringing through raw talent with fingers crossed. Lets hope we can do this in the Championship as im sure everyone will agree that relegation is not a good idea and we would struggle in league 1 too.

On the back of this im sure Nigel & the Board realise this too as they have used the "loan market" transfer system as a way of bringing in quality rather than buying it in.

Make no mistake its going to be 17 games of hell for the rest of the season, lets hope for a few lucky wins along the way.

[WilkoRam]

Are we not just creating a vicious circle here. We had a fresh start when Nigel came in. There was all the talk about the hangover of the poorest season anyone has had in the Prem. It had a negative fact in the players. We got rid of a lot of those players. We didn't replace enough of them and that has resulted in some really good young players now suffering from a lack of belief and confidence. If we had strengthened enough at the time we would have had a squad capable of being rotated when needed to keep it fresh and challenging at the right end. Instead we have created a new negative around the club that may just be as hard to shake. There's no point trying to create a 'fresh start' if you don't put your effort into that start.

[Smalley Ram]

Would it be a bad thing? Damn straight it would! I know it is called League 1 but really it is the third division - that means third best.

We recently lost the signing of a relatively unheard of player because Wigan came in for him. I'm sure it was not the chance to reside in sunny Wigan that decided it for him but the fact they are a premiership club. Now imagine if we were in the third best league rather than the second best - this more than doubles the amount of teams that would be more attractive than Derby by the mere dint of the fact that they would be in higher leagues. Just imagine the dross we would be able to attract then.

I remember the last time we were down there - it was awful, humiliating and two years of my football watching life wasted. Granted we had some enjoyable away trips to places we had never been before and it was funny to outnumber the home fans on some of the away trips. But this aside it was dreadful.

And when ever anyone suggests that it will give the younger players the chance to come through - rubbish, the pressure for success is just the same as you still need to get the results. I like to see young players coming through and being given their chance - but only the ones that are good enough to fight their way into the side and I want to see young players that are good enough for this league not the third division

[Barman]

Relegation such a bad thing? Yes.

[EastKentRam]

I'd quite like the trips to new places and grounds.

[dcfcdavecov]

I don't think dropping down to League 1 is that bad.

Not with Brighton, Bournemouth, and Southampton looking good for promotion.

Feckin long trips them. Keeping my eye on Plymouth.... hope they go down:D

[vonwright]

Third tier is horrible and some big clubs have found it difficult to get back out.

It might give us a fresh start but surely there are other ways of having a fresh start which aren't as painful or drastic? E.g. the club being sold.