9-11, 23 years ago and still there's thoughts of complicity by the USA/Bush

[Bob The Badger]

26 minutes ago, Normanton Lad said:

When you say a conspiracy of this size never being uncovered before then i assume "size" means the number of deaths. If so then your claim is easily disproved. The Gulf of Tonkin false flag conspiracy resulted in millions of deaths. In fact, many wars start as the result of conspiracies. 

I do my own research. This often involves searching through old newspapers to find the origin of influential phrases. For example, when I looked into where the "weapons of mass destruction" came from I knew that it was most probably a lie. People who read newspapers often don't realise how many articles are put there by pressure groups and they don't realise how many journalists are also on the payroll of our, and sometimes other, national security services.

Thank you for your advice about listening to experts but i think I will stick to doubting everything. I no more trust the integrity of experts like doctors than I do plumbers. They both have financial and other motives which might get in the way of truth.

I should have said magnitude.

There has been nothing like it in terms of its government-toppling ability and the number of people who would have to have signed off on it and who then kept it quite for so long.

But most important of all, the fact that so many senior people would have had to agree to the slaughter of millions of their citizens in the most iconic city in their country.

Next time you do some research. Research the research done into people who tend to believe in conspiracy theories more easily. There's a lot.

It's really revealing.

Except for conspiracy theorists, of course.

To them, it's just another conspiracy of scientists and the new world order in an attempt to keep them and their free-thinking down.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

I'll tell you who is brainwashed.

People who think that doubting everything proves they are more open-minded than other people.

Those who don't trust anybody and who think watching a 20-minute YT video is research.

People who pour scorn on science when they have never worked in science and have no comprehension of the amount of work that goes into research.

People who jump on every error science makes as if to prove that it makes it invalid.

People who cannot grasp the concept of either Hanlon's, or Occam's razor.

And people who always look for evidence to support what they already believe.

I frequently look for the opposite e of what I believe to see if it's credible. Do you?

If you had, you'd have read articles like: 9/11 conspiracy theories debunked: 20 years later, engineering experts explain how the twin towers collapsed.

Or read articles from structural engineers like this, trashing the towers' poor design and saying what happened is exactly what they'd expect to have happened under such a ferocious attack.

It's not open-minded to spend your entire life thinking life is one big conspiracy with people out to do evil things; it's paranoid.

Conspiracies happen, but there has literally, in human history, never been a conspiracy of this size uncovered.

Do you know why?

Because they don't happen.

I'll stick to reading books and listening to experts until proven it's unwise to do so.

Ironically, it will be science that has to prove it.

And they are all in cahoots.

So I guess I'm screwed. 
 

 

 

 

Post of the thread, if not year, I must say. 

[Bob The Badger]

47 minutes ago, Normanton Lad said:

When you say a conspiracy of this size never being uncovered before then i assume "size" means the number of deaths. If so then your claim is easily disproved. The Gulf of Tonkin false flag conspiracy resulted in millions of deaths. In fact, many wars start as the result of conspiracies. 

I do my own research. This often involves searching through old newspapers to find the origin of influential phrases. For example, when I looked into where the "weapons of mass destruction" came from I knew that it was most probably a lie. People who read newspapers often don't realise how many articles are put there by pressure groups and they don't realise how many journalists are also on the payroll of our, and sometimes other, national security services.

Thank you for your advice about listening to experts but i think I will stick to doubting everything. I no more trust the integrity of experts like doctors than I do plumbers. They both have financial and other motives which might get in the way of truth.

One other thing, because I'm not sure I made this clear.

I'm not saying governments don't do evil s***.

Nor am I saying that they don't then try and cover it up.

Just that they don't/can't do it at this scale and get away with it.

If there were solid grounds for what you're suggesting, every hostile government and investigative journalist the world over would be all over it. It would be a PR wet dream for the Russians and a Pulitzer Prize for any journalist.

[Normanton Lad]

3 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

If there were solid grounds for what you're suggesting, every hostile government and investigative journalist the world over would be all over it. It would be a PR wet dream for the Russians and a Pulitzer Prize for any journalist.

You seem to have a lot of faith in experts and journalists.

Let me tell you a story about a couple of self-declared experts. A few years ago I mentioned to two accountants that someone who became a UK citizen yesterday could immediately receive a bigger pension than someone who had paid 40+ years of National Insurance. "Nonsense" they said. One of them reminded me that he made a living from giving pension advice. I told him that he had probably never given advice to someone who had no money to pay him for his advice. An OAP with no income or state pension is entitled to a pension credit - which is just another name for a pension - which would give them almost the same pension as a 40+ year NI payer. If the later had bought his own house then he wouldn't be get a rent payment added to his pension credit. The new citizen could. Therefore, the new citizen would end up with more money from the state than the long time NI payer.

Pension credit calculator

The other accountant said that can't be true otherwise the Daily Mail would have made a fuss about it. There are a lot of stories the papers could make a fuss about but they are told to keep away. For example, nothing about the Salisbury poisoning makes sense. There is obviously more to this story than we have been told. All we get is just a load of nonsense from establishment BBC journalists like Jane Corbin - married to a senior Tory politician who was also head of Saatchi & Saatchi. Look at how the journalists lied or kept quiet about the Hunter Biden laptop. You don't seem to understand that journalists are just normal employees who are told what to do and say by their bosses. They are no more interested in truth than your plumber.

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, Normanton Lad said:

There are a lot of stories the papers could make a fuss about but they are told to keep away. For example, nothing about the Salisbury poisoning makes sense. There is obviously more to this story than we have been told. All we get is just a load of nonsense from establishment BBC journalists like Jane Corbin - married to a senior Tory politician who was also head of Saatchi & Saatchi. Look at how the journalists lied or kept quiet about the Hunter Biden laptop. You don't seem to understand that journalists are just normal employees who are told what to do and say by their bosses. They are no more interested in truth than your plumber.

To be fair - that's all true. There is a video online of the secret outtakes from the Max Clifford documentation where he thinks the camera is off, and is just telling it how it is 

 

That said - there is still no logical or credible reason  for WTC7 being an inside job, so I'm calling officially calling tinfoil hat on that one

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

3 hours ago, Normanton Lad said:

You seem to have a lot of faith in experts and journalists.

Let me tell you a story about a couple of self-declared experts. A few years ago I mentioned to two accountants that someone who became a UK citizen yesterday could immediately receive a bigger pension than someone who had paid 40+ years of National Insurance. "Nonsense" they said. One of them reminded me that he made a living from giving pension advice. I told him that he had probably never given advice to someone who had no money to pay him for his advice. An OAP with no income or state pension is entitled to a pension credit - which is just another name for a pension - which would give them almost the same pension as a 40+ year NI payer. If the later had bought his own house then he wouldn't be get a rent payment added to his pension credit. The new citizen could. Therefore, the new citizen would end up with more money from the state than the long time NI payer.

Pension credit calculator

The other accountant said that can't be true otherwise the Daily Mail would have made a fuss about it. There are a lot of stories the papers could make a fuss about but they are told to keep away. For example, nothing about the Salisbury poisoning makes sense. There is obviously more to this story than we have been told. All we get is just a load of nonsense from establishment BBC journalists like Jane Corbin - married to a senior Tory politician who was also head of Saatchi & Saatchi. Look at how the journalists lied or kept quiet about the Hunter Biden laptop. You don't seem to understand that journalists are just normal employees who are told what to do and say by their bosses. They are no more interested in truth than your plumber.

Mate, seriously? 
 

You think your accountant story is comparable to what would be the biggest conspiracy in the history of history.

 

[Bob The Badger]

I do find it interesting that we're debating the relative merits of experts on technology 100% reliant on experts. 

And we're only able to do so because medical experts have more than doubled our life expectancy. 

I wonder how many people who don't trust experts then call for an ambulance to rush them to an expert they don't trust when they have a serious medical emergency.

 

. 

[Normanton Lad]

44 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I do find it interesting that we're debating the relative merits of experts on technology 100% reliant on experts. 

And we're only able to do so because medical experts have more than doubled our life expectancy. 

I wonder how many people who don't trust experts then call for an ambulance to rush them to an expert they don't trust when they have a serious medical emergency.

 

. 

If medical experts (i.e. doctors) are responsible for our increased life expectancy then you might expect those countries with the most doctors per head to have the highest life expectancy. From a quick look at the figures this doesn't seem to be the case. Cuba has the most doctors per head but it is 63rd in the world life expectancy at birth table. Japan is 68th in the doctors by head table but it is 2nd in the life expectancy table.

Life expectancy seems to be more related to things like hygiene, genes and lifestyle rather than having an abundance of experts to call on.

My experience of medical doctors in the UK has not been very positive and I have told all my family that they should be their own doctors. Good health mainly seems to be the result of exercise, a good diet, not smoking or taking drugs and a stress free lifestyle.  But no matter how fit you are you can't escape the influence of your genes. One of the accountants I mentioned above was a phenomenally fit man for his age, but cancer took him away in just a few months. He lived no longer than his parents and they probably spent their spare time eating rubbish and sitting in front of the television. 

One thing you seem to be forgetting in your admiration for experts is that for every expert who says X is true there is often another who says it is false. 

[Crewton]

Who can ever forget the excruciating and risible interview with the two FSB operatives on Russia Today who expressed admiration for the Spire of Salisbury Cathedral only to be accused of being homosexuals by the interviewer because they hadn't made a pass at her?