richinspain Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said: Sorry, wrote it on my ipad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 You're right, they are grown men. They should be tried as grown men, and if found guilty given the punishment suitable for their crimes. I would however hope that they are punished, if found guilty, as ordinary grown men and not as someone to be set as examples. I think it's great when a footballer, or any other "public figure", use their fame as a means of helping others be it publicly or in private. They should not however in my opinion be used as examples when they do something wrong. If a regular fan got in his car last Tuesday after having a drink and crashed into a colleague's car, leaving a third colleague seriously injured, I would hope that they would all receive exactly the same punishment for the exact same crime. Likewise, I would hope that they would get the same punishment at their place of work, within the legal and contract guidelines of each worker. Yes, Lawrence and Bennett are public figures who get well paid for the job they do. Derby County are their employers, and they are employees. Both parties should act accordingly, the club giving out the punishment as an employer adequate to the crime committed, and the players should take their punishment. The club at the same time have to think about their investment. They can't just throw the players on the scrap heap. They have to try to recoup as much as they possibly can, that can be by suspending them and then selling them at the earliest opportunity leading to them taking a reduced fee, or playing them. If they play them, as they quite obviously are, then there are two possibilities. Sell them still at the earliest opportunity, with probably less of a hit on their fees, or continue "as if nothing has happened" from a footballing point of view. That is, if they deserve to play due to form etc then they play. They can still be punished within contract and legal guidelines. They can be fined and they can be "ordered" to do community work. Mel Morris and Phillip Cocu made public apologies on Saturday, letting everyone know how they feel as human beings. They now have to act as professionals, protecting their investment in Mel's case, and leading the team in Phillip's case. It doesn't mean that they are happy with having to do it, for me at least it's just the way it is. Ideally, if the club felt it the right thing to do, the players would be thrown out and their values repaid. However no insurer for example is going to pay £10-12 million for the three players involved (figures plucked pretty much out of thin air). The club, in my opinion, really are obliged to play the two still able to play in order to protect themselves. January is when the club can get rid, if they are prepared (or sufficiently offended by the players' actions) to take a smaller hit on fees. I must add that I'm in no way defending the players here. Their actions deserve punishment. I do however feel that Derby County, and Mel Morris in particular, are being given a hard time for something that they haven't brought upon themselves (even if you feel that they were wrong to organise a works outing to a pub in the first place). For you @Mucker1884 (Still the same load of rubbish, but hopefully easier on the eyes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I won't quote it again, but yes... a lot easier on the eye... and an excellent and fair post, now I can actually read it! Thank you... on both counts! ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 There are Two issues at play here. Lets say they had been to a wedding reception and this had happened there wouldn't have been the furore going on as it is.Yes it would have been reported in the press but not to the degree it was," Derby County players arrested for drink driving after attending wedding reception blah blah.." . the club would have been contacted for a response with no doubt the stock reply that they would be dealt with under club procedure. We would have made comments but more on the lines of "bloody idiots why didn't they book into a hotel or get a taxi, thought that they would have had more brains than to get behind the wheel, sod me, Bennett attending a drink awareness course the day before and then the dick head goes and does this etc,etc..... Played the following game and would have been accepted to a higher degree by the fans. However because they were arrested after attending a club event (team building day) it gets reported in the press in a different light especially as the club provided transport which was booked for 8PM. The club was obviously expecting the event to finish at that time with the arranging of transport. The fact that this happened much later shows a complete disregard to the clubs plans and a complete disregard for club discipline. This is why so many are showing anger towards the players and also towards MM and PC for allowing them to play so soon after,the players by not showing discipline towards the arrangements of the day and MM/PC for allowing them to play for the same reason. Yes, some have commented on other threads "but you know what it's like on a night out with the lads, you go for a couple of drinks and end up having more". The problem is, this wasn't a night out with the lads, it was an event arranged by the club and guidelines/ requests i imagine would have been expected to be adhered to. Not condoning drink driving under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 27 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: There are Two issues at play here. Lets say they had been to a wedding reception and this had happened there wouldn't have been the furore going on as it is.Yes it would have been reported in the press but not to the degree it was," Derby County players arrested for drink driving after attending wedding reception blah blah.." . the club would have been contacted for a response with no doubt the stock reply that they would be dealt with under club procedure. We would have made comments but more on the lines of "bloody idiots why didn't they book into a hotel or get a taxi, thought that they would have had more brains than to get behind the wheel, sod me, Bennett attending a drink awareness course the day before and then the dick head goes and does this etc,etc..... Played the following game and would have been accepted to a higher degree by the fans. However because they were arrested after attending a club event (team building day) it gets reported in the press in a different light especially as the club provided transport which was booked for 8PM. The club was obviously expecting the event to finish at that time with the arranging of transport. The fact that this happened much later shows a complete disregard to the clubs plans and a complete disregard for club discipline. This is why so many are showing anger towards the players and also towards MM and PC for allowing them to play so soon after,the players by not showing discipline towards the arrangements of the day and MM/PC for allowing them to play for the same reason. Yes, some have commented on other threads "but you know what it's like on a night out with the lads, you go for a couple of drinks and end up having more". The problem is, this wasn't a night out with the lads, it was an event arranged by the club and guidelines/ requests i imagine would have been expected to be adhered to. Not condoning drink driving under any circumstances. You say "This is why so many"... I can't say that is the case, for me, personally. The fact it was "a works do" had no bearing on my reaction. As each and every one of them are in a financial position to afford taxi's, the fact that the club laid on cars also made next to no difference. Even the 8pm "deadline" has always been discussed as something advisory... voluntary even... and that whilst the club may have preferred such a finishing time, I've seen nothing to suggest they either demanded it, or even expected it. I see no difference between your fictional wedding scenario, and the actual scene. Maybe if your wedding had been in the summer... outside of the footy season... my initial reaction may not have been so strong, but as it is, both scenarios are still governed by the facts that these are professional athletes. During the season. 4 nights before an important game (They're all important!). For me at least, it's this that brought on my initial ire, and disgust. Whilst I am of course disgusted about the official drink-driving charges, I am equally... at least... appalled that these guys (Pro footballers... not just "The lad's"!) were getting pi55ed so close to their next training session (Apparently "The day after tomorrow") and so close to the next match (less than 4 full days). I'd consider their "crimes"... both literally, and figuratively speaking... to be of equal disappointment following either scenario... and their subsequent match day return to be equally too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xlor Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 11 hours ago, Hathersage Ram said: To even consider making those comments you have, is in my opinion why society is in such a sorry state. These guys are not kids at all, they are grown men! Whose actions show such disregard for others lives that I feel (If found guilty) then they should be jailed! It's your perception of those actions that requires some sharp focus, to understand moral responsibilities. The male brain doesn't become adult until , the minimum, 25 . So yeah, still kids in my book too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardyjim Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 Yes. I'm clearly what is wrong with society. I realised the error of my ways, decided to get a job in mental health despite my degree being in engineering, I donate to charities. But yeah youre right. Us millennials are all that is wrong with society. Maybe the society we grew up in was utterly flawed? Just a thought. Anyway, by the by, there was one person after my arrest that I feared more than anyone and it was my mother. She put her arm around me and gave me some support. I'd made a mess of my life but having that support made me. Yes we can throw the book at these guys, but it won't fix the problem. We're supposed to be DCFC. Support the players, yes they're idiots but aren't we all flawed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardyjim Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 Also, pissing down an alley was just a hypothetical scenario. I'm sorry I lost you. Although I can't think id actually want to find you either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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