Enough is enou zzzzzzz

[beardyjim]

I've been reading this forum for many years but have never felt comfortable enough to comment mainly because I very rarely get to games (I was a student in Liverpool and then worked away) but I always followed this forum and I have massive respect for David and co who look after it. 

 

However the utter hypocrisy of some posters "no longer supporting Derby" "Mel has a lot to answer for" is utterly ridiculous. Until proven guilty the players in question can do what they like as can the club. I have no sympathy for drink drivers, it is not big. And it's not clever. But these guys are essentially kids and to lambast them for making a mistake is beyond crazy. We've all made stupid decisions in our youth whether it's pissing down an ally way or squaring up to some dick in a club. Most of which we are not proud of. Mel and Phil are simply doing best by the football club and unfortunately Tom is currently the best we can get, and you know what, underneath is failings as a human being, he's a good footballer. 

I've had a bit of a rant here, but all I ask is that you look at these players as human beings and not as some pillar of the community. We're all failed, no one is perfect. And I can assure you that the guilt they are feeling inside is way worse then the boo boys insults. 

Just because they are footballers it doesn't stop them from being flawed human beings. 

 

(*Disclaimer. I got busted for drink driving. I had lost my dad a few weeks earlier and quite frankly I didn't care for anything. I was 18) 

[ariotofmyown]

That's the final straw for me. I'm no longer reading this forum anymore if we allow people who have made mistakes to post. @David should feel ashamed for letting this happen.

(Cracking first post by the way @beardyjim and well done for your honest disclaimer.)

[Ellafella]

40 minutes ago, beardyjim said:

I've been reading this forum for many years but have never felt comfortable enough to comment mainly because I very rarely get to games (I was a student in Liverpool and then worked away) but I always followed this forum and I have massive respect for David and co who look after it. 

 

However the utter hypocrisy of some posters "no longer supporting Derby" "Mel has a lot to answer for" is utterly ridiculous. Until proven guilty the players in question can do what they like as can the club. I have no sympathy for drink drivers, it is not big. And it's not clever. But these guys are essentially kids and to lambast them for making a mistake is beyond crazy. We've all made stupid decisions in our youth whether it's pissing down an ally way or squaring up to some dick in a club. Most of which we are not proud of. Mel and Phil are simply doing best by the football club and unfortunately Tom is currently the best we can get, and you know what, underneath is failings as a human being, he's a good footballer. 

I've had a bit of a rant here, but all I ask is that you look at these players as human beings and not as some pillar of the community. We're all failed, no one is perfect. And I can assure you that the guilt they are feeling inside is way worse then the boo boys insults. 

Just because they are footballers it doesn't stop them from being flawed human beings. 

 

(*Disclaimer. I got busted for drink driving. I had lost my dad a few weeks earlier and quite frankly I didn't care for anything. I was 18) 

You lost me at that point ?

[MACKWORTHRAM]

2 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

You lost me at that point ?

I was lost at that point and when they were referred to as kids. They are both grown men. One of which is a father.

[Seaside Ram]

Lost me at pissing down an alley (not sure how many innocent people have died through that )  and essentially kids. (One is 25 the other is a father.)

300+ hours community payback, a suspended jail term and 5yr driving ban etc may make these 'kids' think twice but I doubt it . They are famous and above the law ?

[Millenniumram]

While I respect you coming on here and mentioning your story, I really cannot agree with almost anything you’ve said there. Honestly can’t believe the defence of the clubs actions on here. It astonishes me

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

While I respect you coming on here and mentioning your story, I really cannot agree with almost anything you’ve said there. Honestly can’t believe the defence of the clubs actions on here. It astonishes me

You need to differentiate between the club and the players who did wrong on that night I would suggest. 

[europia]

57 minutes ago, beardyjim said:

 

unfortunately Tom is currently the best we can get, and you know what, underneath is failings as a human being, he's a good footballer. 

I can assure you that the guilt they are feeling inside is way worse then the boo boys insults. 

On the first point, actually with the exception of a few flashes, Lawrence has been rather underwhelming since the club paid a very large fee for his services. He's not indispensable, far from it. 

Regarding the way the accused are feeling. How do you know? There is another view; some supporters think neither of them give a hoot about the club. 

[dcfc4ever]

5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

While I respect you coming on here and mentioning your story, I really cannot agree with almost anything you’ve said there. Honestly can’t believe the defence of the clubs actions on here. It astonishes me

The time and waffle you spend on here astonishes me

[Wolfie20]

12 minutes ago, Seaside Ram said:

Lost me at pissing down an alley (not sure how many innocent people have died through that )  and essentially kids. (One is 25 the other is a father.)

300+ hours community payback, a suspended jail term and 5yr driving ban etc may make these 'kids' think twice but I doubt it . They are famous and above the law ?

Please explain how they are "above the law" when they've yet to appear in court so nobody knows what their penalty will be?

[Seaside Ram]

22 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Please explain how they are "above the law" when they've yet to appear in court so nobody knows what their penalty will be?

Fair comment, it's just my personal feeling that it's how 99.9% of footballers think .

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, Curtains said:

You need to differentiate between the club and the players who did wrong on that night I would suggest. 

What are you even on about now?! I’m criticising both of them for two different reasons. The players for breaking the law and putting people in danger, and the club for not taking a strong enough stance on it- particulary ludicrously allowing the players to play before their court hearing. Almost pretending nothings happened. The club does not escape this without criticism.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, dcfc4ever said:

The time and waffle you spend on here astonishes me

How does one spend waffle??

If you think it’s waffle, then so be it. I’m sure there’s plenty who aren’t relentless happy clappers defending the clubs every morally questionable move who won’t see it as waffle. I’m saying my piece on this major news as much as anyone else. Don’t like it? Put me on ignore.

[Ewe Ram]

I think you need to have a bit of respect for why some people think as they do. I have my own reasons for a zero tolerance of what they have done. I’m not sharing what my reasons are so you can say I’m utterly ridiculous if you want but you won’t change my mind. 

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Seaside Ram said:

Fair comment, it's just my personal feeling that it's how 99.9% of footballers think .

A half hour drive through Derby and you'll see a lot of people who think they're above the law, more important than you or think they're an undiscovered Lewis Hamilton. 

Being an arrogant dick is very trendy

[TommyPowell]

2 hours ago, europia said:

On the first point, actually with the exception of a few flashes, Lawrence has been rather underwhelming since the club paid a very large fee for his services. He's not indispensable, far from it. 

Regarding the way the accused are feeling. How do you know? There is another view; some supporters think neither of them give a hoot about the club. 

He Said Lawrence was the best we had perfectly true in the position he plays

[rynny]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

A half hour drive through Derby and you'll see a lot of people who think they're above the law, more important than you or think they're an undiscovered Lewis Hamilton. 

Being an arrogant dick is very trendy

Most of them have a licence plate next to their rear number plate,usually issued by Gedling or Wolverhampton councils. 

[Hathersage Ram]

17 hours ago, beardyjim said:

I've been reading this forum for many years but have never felt comfortable enough to comment mainly because I very rarely get to games (I was a student in Liverpool and then worked away) but I always followed this forum and I have massive respect for David and co who look after it. 

 

However the utter hypocrisy of some posters "no longer supporting Derby" "Mel has a lot to answer for" is utterly ridiculous. Until proven guilty the players in question can do what they like as can the club. I have no sympathy for drink drivers, it is not big. And it's not clever. But these guys are essentially kids and to lambast them for making a mistake is beyond crazy. We've all made stupid decisions in our youth whether it's pissing down an ally way or squaring up to some dick in a club. Most of which we are not proud of. Mel and Phil are simply doing best by the football club and unfortunately Tom is currently the best we can get, and you know what, underneath is failings as a human being, he's a good footballer. 

I've had a bit of a rant here, but all I ask is that you look at these players as human beings and not as some pillar of the community. We're all failed, no one is perfect. And I can assure you that the guilt they are feeling inside is way worse then the boo boys insults. 

Just because they are footballers it doesn't stop them from being flawed human beings. 

 

(*Disclaimer. I got busted for drink driving. I had lost my dad a few weeks earlier and quite frankly I didn't care for anything. I was 18) 

To even consider making those comments you have, is in my opinion why society is in such a sorry state.

These guys are not kids at all, they are grown men! Whose actions show such disregard for others lives that I feel (If found guilty) then they should be jailed!

It's your perception of those actions that requires some sharp focus, to understand moral responsibilities.

[richinspain]

2 hours ago, Hathersage Ram said:

To even consider making those comments you have, is in my opinion why society is in such a sorry state.

These guys are not kids at all, they are grown men! Whose actions show such disregard for others lives that I feel (If found guilty) then they should be jailed!

It's your perception of those actions that requires some sharp focus, to understand moral responsibilities.

You're right, they are grown men. They should be tried as grown men, and if found guilty given the punishment suitable for their crimes. I would however hope that they are punished, if found guilty, as ordinary grown men and not as someone to be set as examples. I think it's great when a footballer, or any other "public figure", use their fame as a means of helping others be it publicly or in private. They should not however in my opinion be used as examples when they do something wrong. If a regular fan got in his car last Tuesday after having a drink and crashed into a colleague's car, leaving a third colleague seriously injured, I would hope that they would all receive exactly the same punishment for the exact same crime. Likewise, I would hope that they would get the same punishment at their place of work, within the legal and contract guidelines of each worker. Yes, Lawrence and Bennett are public figures who get well paid for the job they do. Derby County are their employers, and they are employees. Both parties should act accordingly, the club giving out the punishment as an employer adequate to the crime committed, and the players should take their punishment. The club at the same time have to think about their investment. They can't just throw the players on the scrap heap. They have to try to recoup as much as they possibly can, that can be by suspending them and then selling them at the earliest opportunity leading to them taking a reduced fee, or playing them. If they play them, as they quite obviously are, then there are two possibilities. Sell them still at the earliest opportunity, with probably less of a hit on their fees, or continue "as if nothing has happened" from a footballing point of view. That is, if they deserve to play due to form etc then they play. They can still be punished within contract and legal guidelines. They can be fined and they can be "ordered" to do community work. Mel Morris and Phillip Cocu made public apologies on Saturday, letting everyone know how they feel as human beings. They now have to act as professionals, protecting their investment in Mel's case, and leading the team in Phillip's case. It doesn't mean that they are happy with having to do it, for me at least it's just the way it is. Ideally, if the club felt it the thing to do, the players would be thrown out and their values repaid. However no insurer for example is going to pay £10-12 million for the three players involved (figures plucked pretty much out of thin air). The club, in my opinion, really are obliged to play the two still able to play in order to protect themselves. January is when the club can get rid, if they are prepared (or sufficiently offended by the players' actions) to take a smaller hit on fees.

I must add that I'm in no way defending the players here. Their actions deserve punishment. I do however feel that Derby County, and Mel Morris in particular, are being given a hard time for something that they haven't brought upon themselves (even if you feel that they were wrong to organise a works outing to a pub in the first place).

[Mucker1884]

35 minutes ago, richinspain said:

You're right, they are grown men. They should be tried as grown men, and if found guilty given the punishment suitable for their crimes. I would however hope that they are punished, if found guilty, as ordinary grown men and not as someone to be set as examples. I think it's great when a footballer, or any other "public figure", use their fame as a means of helping others be it publicly or in private. They should not however in my opinion be used as examples when they do something wrong. If a regular fan got in his car last Tuesday after having a drink and crashed into a colleague's car, leaving a third colleague seriously injured, I would hope that they would all receive exactly the same punishment for the exact same crime. Likewise, I would hope that they would get the same punishment at their place of work, within the legal and contract guidelines of each worker. Yes, Lawrence and Bennett are public figures who get well paid for the job they do. Derby County are their employers, and they are employees. Both parties should act accordingly, the club giving out the punishment as an employer adequate to the crime committed, and the players should take their punishment. The club at the same time have to think about their investment. They can't just throw the players on the scrap heap. They have to try to recoup as much as they possibly can, that can be by suspending them and then selling them at the earliest opportunity leading to them taking a reduced fee, or playing them. If they play them, as they quite obviously are, then there are two possibilities. Sell them still at the earliest opportunity, with probably less of a hit on their fees, or continue "as if nothing has happened" from a footballing point of view. That is, if they deserve to play due to form etc then they play. They can still be punished within contract and legal guidelines. They can be fined and they can be "ordered" to do community work. Mel Morris and Phillip Cocu made public apologies on Saturday, letting everyone know how they feel as human beings. They now have to act as professionals, protecting their investment in Mel's case, and leading the team in Phillip's case. It doesn't mean that they are happy with having to do it, for me at least it's just the way it is. Ideally, if the club felt it the thing to do, the players would be thrown out and their values repaid. However no insurer for example is going to pay £10-12 million for the three players involved (figures plucked pretty much out of thin air). The club, in my opinion, really are obliged to play the two still able to play in order to protect themselves. January is when the club can get rid, if they are prepared (or sufficiently offended by the players' actions) to take a smaller hit on fees.

I must add that I'm in no way defending the players here. Their actions deserve punishment. I do however feel that Derby County, and Mel Morris in particular, are being given a hard time for something that they haven't brought upon themselves (even if you feel that they were wrong to organise a works outing to a pub in the first place).