StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 1.6 billion muslims in the world - how many are terrorists, or even agree with the terrorists? There are no official figures but when a scare-mongering hate rag like the Daily Mail tells us that ISIS has 160,000 members, that's still only 0.01% of all muslims willing to die for their cause. They are a small number of extremists, extreme in views and in statistical significance. Tell yourself this is simply a problem with Islam if you like, but it really isn't. It's a problem with an unjust world that disenfranchises people so much that they end up in this dark place. That's the same with everyone who has ever killed innocent people for no sane reason. How many of the worlds 1.6 billion Muslims are likely to support terrorism? A much bigger percentage of the worlds non-Muslim population, that's how many. As I've already said there is an over-representation of Muslims within the people we call terrorists. Atheist Sam Harris believes that Jihadists count for a small percentage, and Islamists (who are part of the problem) count for about 20% of that 1.6 billion. **** me that's a lot of people. As Bill Maher said the other day "If there's that many bad apples then there's something wrong with the orchard". Much of the radicalisation of Muslims is funded by the Wahhabi. Can you imagine if an offshoot of the Catholic Church or a European government were radicalising Europeans - leading to oppression and at its most extreme - terrorism? Would we be sitting here discussing whether there was a problem within Catholicism? Whether people were painting all Catholics with the same brush? Or would we spend most of our efforts on dealing with the problem? But there is no link between Islam and terrorism today? Well thank god for that. Maajid Nawaz can go home early today then. And your comments about a disenfranchised world - it seems like you're suggesting western foreign policy is directly responsible for terrorism (nothing to do with the Saudis spread of Wahhabism then?). Can I ask - how has western foreign policy contributed to the oppression of women, apostates, gays, Jews and free thinkers in the 'Muslim world'? Everything would just be fine and dandy if it weren't for our meddling would it? And there would be no hotbed of Neanderthal ideas ready to be exploited if it weren't for western imperialists? I'm not denying there are other factors. But I'm sorry, there is a specific group of people calling themselves Mulsim using Islamic doctrine to justify the terrible things they do. This doesn't happen with any other religion to anywhere near the same degree in modern times. Logical conclusion - there is a problem within the various communities of this 1.6 billion people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You genuinely think that 20% of muslims support terrorism?? That's plainly ridiculous. That would equate to over 300 million muslims. Supporting terrorism? If that were true do you not think we'd be seeing terrorist atrocities a bit more frequently than we are? I get that you don't like muslims. In fact I'm really struggling to work out from your various posts who/what you actually DO like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You genuinely think that 20% of muslims support terrorism?? That's plainly ridiculous. That would equate to over 300 million muslims. Supporting terrorism? If that were true do you not think we'd be seeing terrorist atrocities a bit more frequently than we are? I get that you don't like muslims. In fact I'm really struggling to work out from your various posts who/what you actually DO like? No I said that Sam Harris said that around 20% were Islamists. Jihadists are the likely terrorists. Can I believe that 20% of Muslims around the world are Islamists? Absolutely. I can believe that 20% of Muslims in this country are Islamists. You shouldn't get that I don't like Muslims because I never said that. Let me turn that on its head - who suffers from Islam the most? Why Mulsims do, especially the women. So maybe you don't like Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You shouldn't get that I don't like Muslims because I never said that. Let me turn that on its head - who suffers from Islam the most? Why Mulsims do, especially the women. So maybe you don't like Muslims? Erm - that doesn't quite work does it? Never mind. Nice try. I try and see the good in everyone as a basic tenet in life. You appear to be the exact opposite. As I said, you don't seem to like much. You are doing some severe axe-grinding against muslims here, so surely you can see why I might deduce that you don't like them much? You appear to be saying that you think they are terrorists, or enablers of terrorists and they hate gays and women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Erm - that doesn't quite work does it? Never mind. Nice try. I try and see the good in everyone as a basic tenet in life. You appear to be the exact opposite. As I said, you don't seem to like much. You are doing some severe axe-grinding against muslims here, so surely you can see why I might deduce that you don't like them much? You appear to be saying that you think they are terrorists, or enablers of terrorists and they hate gays and women. Just following your lead. Not nice is it? I seem to be saying that there is a comparative overrepresentation of illiberal ideas in the 'Muslim world'. I seem to be saying that because I am saying that. And I am saying that because evidence indicates that is the truth. If people want to reduce that to 'yeah well theres bad people everywhere' then they're not confronting the specific problem. That is unintellectual and dangerous. Your basic tenet of life is is indeed basic, and it's leading you to not acknowledge evidence. You then twist that and polarise the issue by making out that by acknowledging evidence (see Pew results), I am going out of my way to see bad in people. I am being proportionate to the specific problem, as are many Muslim reformists who deserve our support. You are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Atheist Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 What has somebody being an atheist got to do with anything? It doesn't give anyone a special insight into the world's problems - it just means that on one specific issue he is 100% correct. He's basically an atheist by profession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Just following your lead. Not nice is it? You then twist that and polarise the issue by making out that by acknowledging evidence (see Pew results), I am going out of my way to see bad in people. I am being proportionate to the specific problem, as are many Muslim reformists who deserve our support. You are not. Bananas - it must be hard work being you. You don't even realise that accusing me of twisting and poloarising issues is actually a complete reflection of what you do continually. But it's OK when you do it because you're ineffably right about everything. I'm unintellectual and dangerous - says the man who essentially thinks the best way to get rid of racism, sexism, homophobia and religious hatred is to reduce the world's population to a single white asexual hermaphrodite atheist called StringerBell. I hope you'll be very happy with yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Bananas - it must be hard work being you. You don't even realise that accusing me of twisting and poloarising issues is actually a complete reflection of what you do continually. But it's OK when you do it because you're ineffably right about everything. I'm unintellectual and dangerous - says the man who essentially thinks the best way to get rid of racism, sexism, homophobia and religious hatred is to reduce the world's population to a single white asexual hermaphrodite atheist called StringerBell. I hope you'll be very happy with yourself I didn't say you were unintellectual and dangerous. I said it was specifically unintellectual and dangerous to ignore or obscure the fact that there is a direct link between Islam and bad ideas, which unfortunately often results in terrorism. What issues have I polarised? Was it the bit where I acknowledged that sociopolitical factors almost certainly do play a role in terrorism? But yeah you are trying my patience because, although you made a good go of it at the beginning of the thread, you have reverted to type (the GreenRam that previously implied I was racist for some ridiculous reason that there was no evidence for) and you have started to dismiss what you don't agree with, not by debate, but by becoming personal. "I get that you don't like Muslims"? That, right there, is where this previously good, honest debate went downhill. I hope you are happy with yourself too :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yep - there was no direct evidence, and I think I apologised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 He's basically an atheist by profession I'm in the wrong job then. Incidentally, would an agnostic be an enthusiastic amateur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yep - there was no direct evidence, and I think I apologised? Aye I think you did, sort of. But.... "I'm unintellectual and dangerous - says the man who essentially thinks the best way to get rid of racism, sexism, homophobia and religious hatred is to reduce the world's population to a single white asexual hermaphrodite atheist called StringerBell." - isn't that an accusation of xenophobia dressed up as a joke? Perhaps I'm unnecessarily on the defensive but it came across that way to me in any case. That coupled with the fact that I apparently don't like Muslims and deliberately only see bad in people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm in the wrong job then. Incidentally, would an agnostic be an enthusiastic amateur? I don't know. I'm going to sit on the fence with that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Aye I think you did, sort of. But.... "I'm unintellectual and dangerous - says the man who essentially thinks the best way to get rid of racism, sexism, homophobia and religious hatred is to reduce the world's population to a single white asexual hermaphrodite atheist called StringerBell." - isn't that an accusation of xenophobia dressed up as a joke? Perhaps I'm unnecessarily on the defensive but it came across that way to me in any case. That coupled with the fact that I apparently don't like Muslims and deliberately only see bad in people No - but it is a joke. I was just trying to follow a lot of your views to their logical conclusion for comedic effect. Probably unfairly boiling them down to "this is bad/wrong so we should get rid of it". I find a lot of of your views genuinely interesting (albeit that I instinctively disagree with almost all of them), but you're frustrating to debate with. A sign of my total capitulation is when I try and make a joke of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 No - but it is a joke. I was just trying to follow a lot of your views to their logical conclusion for comedic effect. Probably unfairly boiling them down to "this is bad/wrong so we should get rid of it". I find a lot of of your views genuinely interesting (albeit that I instinctively disagree with almost all of them), but you're frustrating to debate with. A sign of my total capitulation is when I try and make a joke of it Haha ok fair one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Not saying that it was fake but it seems a bit strange that the leaders forgot to completely mention the 2000 killed by the boco haram and the media gave full coverage to these shootings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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