GSE and the Owners; where do you stand?

[curb]

I agree. I apologise to anyone else offended by this. Simply both Ronnie and I have reasons to be convinced we are right, both of us have no reason to reveal them to everyone else on here, but in the interests of the forum, we've opened it up in private. I can see many reasons why the reactions have been what they are. Sometimes we're removed from people having actual feelings when it's generally a banter/vent/rumour/debate type site.

Boo, it was just getting interesting

[Mostyn6]

Boo, it was just getting interesting

 

17 pages, nearly 160 votes, and it's only getting interesting when there's a dispute?

[curb]

17 pages, nearly 160 votes, and it's only getting interesting when there's a dispute?

Yep

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[ramblur]

 

 

PS : Get well soon Ramblur.

Thanks for your well wishes ,AccountantRam.Having attended outpatients today,a registrar of the consultant told me I was making very good progress.I may be able to ditch the crutches a lot sooner than the average patient of this type. 

[ramblur]

No, I get it perfectly well.

 

Just don't understand why Gadsby was not aiming his rage at Pearson though as it must have been him that has failed to deliver on his promises, after all the new owners can't have promised Gadsby anything if he didn't know their identities.

 

Also just going  back to his interview it wasn't just the investment that was annoying about the owners remember, it was the other things too that were bad for the fans like the early bird scheme (still in place now) and the contract catering (still in place now).

 

So despite the fact that they have failed to correct any of the things that Gadsby was moaning about, and despite the fact that the investment was 5 years later than Gadsby claims was promised, he still is more than happy to go into business with them on Pride Plaza.

 

Yes I get it all perfectly well.

We're obviously not going to get very far with this.Gadsby may well have been narked with AP (though of course I don't know),but there again Gadsby was directing his ire at an administration that included AP,and indeed after Glick's initial holding interview,it was AP (with AA alongside) who responded.

 

I thought Gadsby's main comment about the catering was to ask where the money had gone- having signed what I seem to remember was a 10 year contract,I don't see that the current administration could do much about it even if they wanted to.However ,I'm not going to continue with this.As it happens,I believe that ALL parties were probably acting in good faith-the only problem I have with it all is that the claims of investment here there and everywhere made in the joint AP/AA release seem to me to have been designed to give the impression that the investment in question was inward (cash) investment by the owners,when financial documents later released would cast doubt on this (we can certainly say that payments made between 1/1/08 and 30/6/08 involved no new financial input).

 

When I feel up to it I'm going to post up a rather long (unfortunately for you all and yours truly) blog on what I think may have transpired from the initial courting of GSE to Gadsby's initial outburst.In constructing this,it will be PURELY my own speculation,as I have absolutely no inside knowledge.When I've no facts to hand I look at events and statements and try to put myself in the shoes of all parties,and then engage my brain.I think everyone will probably then see why I think all parties were acting in good faith.I can't promise it'll come any time soon because,as anyone will know who's had a hip op,I have to sleep on my back-something I've never been able to do and which is giving me nights with little sleep.Although I will only be posting opinion,I still have to be careful of what I say(and so need to be fully alert mentally),but I can say there'll be nothing approaching malicious in anything I suggest.

[eddie]

Thanks for your well wishes ,AccountantRam.Having attended outpatients today,a registrar of the consultant told me I was making very good progress.I may be able to ditch the crutches a lot sooner than the average patient of this type. 

 

Go for it - glad you're getting there.

 

I was down to 1 crutch after 3 weeks and the other went after 4. Still used a stick for 3 months, and I still have one in the car for 'insurance'.

 

Oh, and as for sleeping on your back to avoid dislocations - I can't remember how long that was for (6 weeks?), but I remember that first night I was 'allowed' to sleep on my side. I went 14 hours undisturbed. Heaven. 

[G STAR RAM]

We're obviously not going to get very far with this.Gadsby may well have been narked with AP (though of course I don't know),but there again Gadsby was directing his ire at an administration that included AP,and indeed after Glick's initial holding interview,it was AP (with AA alongside) who responded.

 

I thought Gadsby's main comment about the catering was to ask where the money had gone- having signed what I seem to remember was a 10 year contract,I don't see that the current administration could do much about it even if they wanted to.However ,I'm not going to continue with this.As it happens,I believe that ALL parties were probably acting in good faith-the only problem I have with it all is that the claims of investment here there and everywhere made in the joint AP/AA release seem to me to have been designed to give the impression that the investment in question was inward (cash) investment by the owners,when financial documents later released would cast doubt on this (we can certainly say that payments made between 1/1/08 and 30/6/08 involved no new financial input).

 

When I feel up to it I'm going to post up a rather long (unfortunately for you all and yours truly) blog on what I think may have transpired from the initial courting of GSE to Gadsby's initial outburst.In constructing this,it will be PURELY my own speculation,as I have absolutely no inside knowledge.When I've no facts to hand I look at events and statements and try to put myself in the shoes of all parties,and then engage my brain.I think everyone will probably then see why I think all parties were acting in good faith.I can't promise it'll come any time soon because,as anyone will know who's had a hip op,I have to sleep on my back-something I've never been able to do and which is giving me nights with little sleep.Although I will only be posting opinion,I still have to be careful of what I say(and so need to be fully alert mentally),but I can say there'll be nothing approaching malicious in anything I suggest.

 

I know we have our disagreements but I genuinely look forward to reading that.

 

I will be the first to say that the information you post us is much more accurate than anything I post and goes into much better detail.

 

I really hope you are wrong regarding the catering! I had in my mind that it was £5million over 5 years but thinking about it that sounds extremely high. I can't remember when the catering was sold off or would look at the accounts to try and identify the transaction. I guess it could be deduced by either looking for the receipt on the cash flow (although this may just be in operating activities) or by looking at the deferred income released to the profit and loss account (if that is how it has been treated). Either way it won't hide the fact that what they serve inside the ground is bloody awful!

[davenportram]

Catering deal was signed in 2008

Worth £60m according to this

http://m.catererandhotelkeeper.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=321939

[ramblur]

Catering deal was signed in 2008

Worth £60m according to this

http://m.catererandhotelkeeper.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=321939

Think that applies more to the potential rewards of the contractor than DCFC !

[ramblur]

I know we have our disagreements but I genuinely look forward to reading that.

 

I will be the first to say that the information you post us is much more accurate than anything I post and goes into much better detail.

 

I really hope you are wrong regarding the catering! I had in my mind that it was £5million over 5 years but thinking about it that sounds extremely high. I can't remember when the catering was sold off or would look at the accounts to try and identify the transaction. I guess it could be deduced by either looking for the receipt on the cash flow (although this may just be in operating activities) or by looking at the deferred income released to the profit and loss account (if that is how it has been treated). Either way it won't hide the fact that what they serve inside the ground is bloody awful!

Fair enough,and no hard feelings.The contract was definitely 10 years I'm afraid.

[ramblur]

Go for it - glad you're getting there.

 

I was down to 1 crutch after 3 weeks and the other went after 4. Still used a stick for 3 months, and I still have one in the car for 'insurance'.

 

Oh, and as for sleeping on your back to avoid dislocations - I can't remember how long that was for (6 weeks?), but I remember that first night I was 'allowed' to sleep on my side. I went 14 hours undisturbed. Heaven. 

Thanks eddie.I've been walking short distances around the house for several days now and I'm not yet through 4 weeks.Asked the registrar how long before I could ditch crutches and he said 6 weeks,so decided to come clean and he said it was fine if I felt comfortable.The whole process so far has been a massive relief because whilst on the ward waiting to be carted off to theatre,a junior anaesthetist detected a chest problem (compromised immune system makes me continually vulnerable) and a blasted ECG went wrong,luckily due to a glitch.Having waited so long for the op I was devastated,however to my intense relief I was wheeled off to a room opposite the theatre.....only to be grilled by the senior anaesthetist.From what he was saying,I was absolutely convinced he was going to decline the op,until he said that with my history it was unlikely to get any better,and in I went.Having said that,I'm always going to be aware of possible future complications,but hell,live the moment.

 

My research indicates 8 weeks before being allowed to sleep on operated side only.Of course,with my luck that happens to be my least favoured side.Still,I'm sure I'll sleep for 14 weeks when the time comes.......unless we're around top 6

[G STAR RAM]

Catering deal was signed in 2008

Worth £60m according to this

http://m.catererandhotelkeeper.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=321939

 

Have not got the accounts that far back but £6million per year sound ridiculously high!

 

I wonder if that was based on gates of 30,000 every week?

 

I wonder if the sale of the catering rights was a master stroke without the owners knowing?!

 

I have seen it said that our income may be based on the catering income reaching certain levels but there is nothing in the accounts to indicate this.

[ramblur]

Have not got the accounts that far back but £6million per year sound ridiculously high!

 

I wonder if that was based on gates of 30,000 every week?

 

I wonder if the sale of the catering rights was a master stroke without the owners knowing?!

 

I have seen it said that our income may be based on the catering income reaching certain levels but there is nothing in the accounts to indicate this.

I think a lot (if not all) of what has been said about catering rights is pure speculation.Having had a quick glance at the 11/12 turnover,the only possible places I could see it featuring would be 'Commercial Activities' (£2.653m) or 'Other receipts' (£605k).It wouldn't be classed as a capital receipt.If it were to lie within the former,then it can't be all of it (or even most of it)-I'll delve back a few years to see what 'other receipts' used to run at (by no means conclusive,whatever turns up).Any advance payment would have gone to deferred income and spewed out as an annual amount-impossible to draw any conclusions there,as several items might go in there and it's lumped together with accruals anyway.

 

Interesting-O/R in Prem season was only £329k,and thereafter it was £560k,£479k,£591k and £605k reading forward to 11/12.

[eddie]

Thanks eddie.I've been walking short distances around the house for several days now and I'm not yet through 4 weeks.Asked the registrar how long before I could ditch crutches and he said 6 weeks,so decided to come clean and he said it was fine if I felt comfortable.The whole process so far has been a massive relief because whilst on the ward waiting to be carted off to theatre,a junior anaesthetist detected a chest problem (compromised immune system makes me continually vulnerable) and a blasted ECG went wrong,luckily due to a glitch.Having waited so long for the op I was devastated,however to my intense relief I was wheeled off to a room opposite the theatre.....only to be grilled by the senior anaesthetist.From what he was saying,I was absolutely convinced he was going to decline the op,until he said that with my history it was unlikely to get any better,and in I went.Having said that,I'm always going to be aware of possible future complications,but hell,live the moment.

 

My research indicates 8 weeks before being allowed to sleep on operated side only.Of course,with my luck that happens to be my least favoured side.Still,I'm sure I'll sleep for 14 weeks when the time comes.......unless we're around top 6

 

My op was postponed for 6 months - I went down with DVT and obviously anticoagulants and major surgery don't mix so it was put on hold until they'd stabilised by blood. It was a huge relief when it finally got done - and then I went down with DVT again. Black pudding in my veins, I suppose.  

[ramblur]

 Black pudding in my veins, I suppose.  

I'm sure Delaware are constantly monitoring your situation

[G STAR RAM]

I think a lot (if not all) of what has been said about catering rights is pure speculation.Having had a quick glance at the 11/12 turnover,the only possible places I could see it featuring would be 'Commercial Activities' (£2.653m) or 'Other receipts' (£605k).It wouldn't be classed as a capital receipt.If it were to lie within the former,then it can't be all of it (or even most of it)-I'll delve back a few years to see what 'other receipts' used to run at (by no means conclusive,whatever turns up).Any advance payment would have gone to deferred income and spewed out as an annual amount-impossible to draw any conclusions there,as several items might go in there and it's lumped together with accruals anyway.

 

Interesting-O/R in Prem season was only £329k,and thereafter it was £560k,£479k,£591k and £605k reading forward to 11/12.

 

I had a quick glance and I really couldn't even begin to fathom whe/where the money came in.

 

Based on the fact that they caterers have the rights for matchday and all non matchday corporate events I would certainly expect the sale of the rights to be more than £2 to £3million over 10 years which is what the increase in other income would seem to indicate.

 

I really wonder where that £64million figure came from? My guess is that would be a very high estimate at the turnover from the catering. Purely speculation though.

 

Just as an aside, do you have any idea what is in the accruals/deferred income? I know there is a grant in there (haven't looked to see what that is or when it arose as I only have accounts from 2010 onwards), I also know that the advance season ticket income and believe that the revolving loan used to be in there but was later re-classified to other loans but I'm going from memory there so maybe wrong.

[Mostyn6]

Before this conversation, I had the figures of £1.7m and 6 years in my head regarding the catering rights, plus a 1.5% of profit made being given back to DCFC.

[ramblur]

I had a quick glance and I really couldn't even begin to fathom whe/where the money came in.

 

Based on the fact that they caterers have the rights for matchday and all non matchday corporate events I would certainly expect the sale of the rights to be more than £2 to £3million over 10 years which is what the increase in other income would seem to indicate.

 

I really wonder where that £64million figure came from? My guess is that would be a very high estimate at the turnover from the catering. Purely speculation though.

 

Just as an aside, do you have any idea what is in the accruals/deferred income? I know there is a grant in there (haven't looked to see what that is or when it arose as I only have accounts from 2010 onwards), I also know that the advance season ticket income and believe that the revolving loan used to be in there but was later re-classified to other loans but I'm going from memory there so maybe wrong.

I'd ruled out merchandising,but seeing as this word in the accounts would simply imply the sale of merchandise,then I suppose catering might have gone in there.However,this would have been ok when we did the catering ourselves,but nowadays we're selling the rights rather than the merchandise,so that would appear to rule that one out . My instincts tell me that commercial revenue would be the correct heading,and of course I've now realised the error of my ways in looking for increases,as our own catering income would have preceded the sale of rights,so there's always been catering income in one shape or form.I'm consigning it to the 'can't be done' bin.

 

You've probably got the deferred income right,unless any elements of sponsorship/advertising/commercial income come in before the year to which they relate.Accruals could be any number of things.

[G STAR RAM]

I'd ruled out merchandising,but seeing as this word in the accounts would simply imply the sale of merchandise,then I suppose catering might have gone in there.However,this would have been ok when we did the catering ourselves,but nowadays we're selling the rights rather than the merchandise,so that would appear to rule that one out . My instincts tell me that commercial revenue would be the correct heading,and of course I've now realised the error of my ways in looking for increases,as our own catering income would have preceded the sale of rights,so there's always been catering income in one shape or form.I'm consigning it to the 'can't be done' bin.

You've probably got the deferred income right,unless any elements of sponsorship/advertising/commercial income come in before the year to which they relate.Accruals could be any number of things.

Another thing I thought of which surprised me is that I can't see wages due to be paid under contractual obligation in the future.

[ramblur]

Another thing I thought of which surprised me is that I can't see wages due to be paid under contractual obligation in the future.

Not sure I understand what you're getting at there.If you're talking about sacked/left by mutual consent staff with o/s contracts stretching into future years,I don't recall any football club's accounts referencing this kind of thing in any way.The closest thing I've seen was in Palace's accounts from a few years ago,when total directors' emoluments came to over £1m.A footnote however indicated that a great chunk of this figure related to compensation for loss of office in respect of a director.The whole amount was charged in the year it arose.