Must have made a profit?

[G STAR RAM]

We've had 2 deadlines,the 'Early Birds' one and the one just passed.I seem to remember that prior to the former,names like Baptiste and Burke were being bandied around,together with exciting signings and a top 6 push.Now the latter has finally passed,we must try and assess if our overall activity has been enough to come somewhere close to matching that of those clubs that finished above us last year ,and then additionally done enough to overtake enough of them (whilst ignoring relegated clubs,and it looks to me that QPR may well have done enough to close off one of the automatics).I share your depression,and the loss of Jeff for 12 weeks hasn't helped. 

 

I would hardly say Baptiste and Burke are exciting signings that would put bums on seats. Rush was very clear about the Baptiste situation very quickly and I don't remember the club ever mentioning Burke, so to try and make out the club did this to get early bird season ticket holders is a bit unfair in my opinion.

 

I seem to remember a lot of people on here saying Russell was the missing piece of the jigsaw and praising the signing of Forsyth, now the jigsaw is once again broken and people are back into spend spend spend mode.

 

I fully agree that we need a centre back but now to try and move the goalposts and say we need a left back, a right mid etc etc seems a classic case of hindsight and I would rather sign nobody than panic buy after a bad performance 3 days before transfer window closes.

 

Just out of interest, which of the other teams signings do you think have significantly strengthened them so much as to stop us making up last years points difference, or which teams that finished below us should now be looking to overtake us based on their summer transfer activity? Not me being facetious but I haven't really paid much attention to what teams are signing who.

[ramblur]

Just one other point,after listening to the phone in tonight.It was stated that the club had been contacted and RD had been informed that this year's wage budget was £2m more than the previous year.By now fans should have learned to pay close attention to the words used by this administration.They haven't said that we will be spending £2m more on wages this year,just that the budget has increased (and it may or may not be utilised).It might be that there was an overspend on budget last year,and depending on the extent of such overspend (if there was one),there might be little difference in actual spend.

 

Looking at the ins and outs,I don't see much of an increase (if any),particularly as last year's figure would have included an element of wages for Martin and Forsyth.

[G STAR RAM]

I though John was in his second contract with us, so presumably that was a high wage no?

 

Didn't you just say Smith was on a low wage because it was only his second contract?

 

Not meaning to be a tw*t but I just don't see the point in plucking figures out of the air and using them to say what it has done to our financial situation.

 

We have a wage budget and I imagine Nigel sticks pretty much to it. I don't think it was any secret that last year we were still over it so it had to be brought down slightly.

[ChaddesdenRam]

Didn't you just say Smith was on a low wage because it was only his second contract?

 

Not meaning to be a tw*t but I just don't see the point in plucking figures out of the air and using them to say what it has done to our financial situation.

 

We have a wage budget and I imagine Nigel sticks pretty much to it. I don't think it was any secret that last year we were still over it so it had to be brought down slightly.

 

 

No no no.

 

That was Smith's second contract he is only like 21.

 

That was Brayford's second contract at Derby County not overall in his entire professional career.

[CumbrianRam]

Must be said Baptiste has hardly helped Bolton, flat bottom and a much worse defensive record then us.

[G STAR RAM]

No no no.

 

That was Smith's second contract he is only like 21.

 

That was Brayford's second contract at Derby County not overall in his entire professional career.

 

And he was at Crewe and Burton before.

 

Smith is an England under 21 at a team that finished 5th or 6th in The Premier League.

 

You might be spot on but I can't see how Smith would be on a low wage and Brayford on a high wage. Didn't someone post on here that Brayford had gone to £12k a week and had over trebled his wage?

[trekkie_ram]

Thank f**k Will Hughes is still here, or we'd have a lot of slit wrists and not many bums on seats at Pride Park.

[G STAR RAM]

Thank f**k Will Hughes is still here, or we'd have a lot of slit wrists and not many bums on seats at Pride Park.

 

Don't tempt fate! Deals can still be completed up until 1am!

[trekkie_ram]

Don't tempt fate! Deals can still be completed up until 1am!

I feel it'd be a little out of the blue now - lol.

[G STAR RAM]

I feel it'd be a little out of the blue now - lol.

 

Out of The Blues...is that a code? Everton re-investing the Feilani money?

[ChaddesdenRam]

And he was at Crewe and Burton before.

 

Smith is an England under 21 at a team that finished 5th or 6th in The Premier League.

 

You might be spot on but I can't see how Smith would be on a low wage and Brayford on a high wage. Didn't someone post on here that Brayford had gone to £12k a week and had over trebled his wage?

 

Didn't know that about Brayford, because he was one of our best players and was in his second contract at the club i just put 2 and 2 together and presumed he would be a high earner.

 

 

The figures are up for debate as everything is undisclosed so you could be right. As for Smith I agree i might have underestimated his wage but i'm not sure if we are paying all his wages.

 

 

 

Those two changes would likely cancel eachother out anyhow in terms of wage spend if Brayford was actually less than a high and Smith was more than a Low.

[G STAR RAM]

Didn't know that about Brayford, because he was one of our best players and was in his second contract at the club i just put 2 and 2 together and presumed he would be a high earner.

 

 

The figures are up for debate as everything is undisclosed so you could be right. As for Smith I agree i might have underestimated his wage but i'm not sure if we are paying all his wages.

 

 

 

Those two changes would likely cancel eachother out anyhow in terms of wage spend if Brayford was actually less than a high and Smith was more than a Low.

 

Wasn't Brayford coming to the end of a 3 year contract?

 

As I say doesn't really make much difference, although surprised to see what Ramblur said re wage budget.

 

Certainly wouldn't be surprised if Martin, Grant and Eustace significantly pushed the wage bill up but hopefully offloading Tyson has pulled this down a bit.

[ChaddesdenRam]

Wasn't Brayford coming to the end of a 3 year contract?

As I say doesn't really make much difference, although surprised to see what Ramblur said re wage budget.

Certainly wouldn't be surprised if Martin, Grant and Eustace significantly pushed the wage bill up but hopefully offloading Tyson has pulled this down a bit.

We can agree on that, hopefully Tyson going has freed it up enough for a new player to come in on loan.

[ChorleyRam]

Whatever the figures are on the ins and outs and wages surely no-one can argue that we've not spent nearly as much as was suggested by Rush when selling season tickets! We've been in dire need of a leader type centre half since Shackell was sold. It baffles me how Nige just says we've got OB and Barker coming back! OB has made how many appearances?? And Barker has been out for 18 months already...it would take him about 6 months to get back to Championship match fitness. If I ever plays again that is, which I have serious doubts about.

We just always seem to try and do things on the cheap. I've no qualms with balancing the books but every season we are 2 or 3 players short of really having a good go. Is investing 2 or 3 million more to maybe get approx £100 million back not a no brainer??

[ramblur]

I would hardly say Baptiste and Burke are exciting signings that would put bums on seats. Rush was very clear about the Baptiste situation very quickly and I don't remember the club ever mentioning Burke, so to try and make out the club did this to get early bird season ticket holders is a bit unfair in my opinion.

 

I seem to remember a lot of people on here saying Russell was the missing piece of the jigsaw and praising the signing of Forsyth, now the jigsaw is once again broken and people are back into spend spend spend mode.

 

I fully agree that we need a centre back but now to try and move the goalposts and say we need a left back, a right mid etc etc seems a classic case of hindsight and I would rather sign nobody than panic buy after a bad performance 3 days before transfer window closes.

 

Just out of interest, which of the other teams signings do you think have significantly strengthened them so much as to stop us making up last years points difference, or which teams that finished below us should now be looking to overtake us based on their summer transfer activity? Not me being facetious but I haven't really paid much attention to what teams are signing who.

Did I say that Baptiste and Burke were exciting signings? Did I say that we need a LB,RM etc,etc? Whilst others may (or may not) have said that Russell was the missing piece,I never did.I remember at the time wondering if the Baptiste business was maybe a statement of intent that wasn't really there.The fact that we now no longer seem to need a CB has done nothing to alter my speculation.I'm pretty sure that Clough said that Burke was a player he liked and that the situation would be monitored-the interest only subsided when he signed an extension (which was always likely to happen).

 

Here's a list of club by club activity,so you can make your own mind up re your last paragraph:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/championship/10120670/Championship-Summer-Transfers-2013.html

[CumbrianRam]

Did I say that Baptiste and Burke were exciting signings? Did I say that we need a LB,RM etc,etc? Whilst others may (or may not) have said that Russell was the missing piece,I never did.I remember at the time wondering if the Baptiste business was maybe a statement of intent that wasn't really there.The fact that we now no longer seem to need a CB has done nothing to alter my speculation.I'm pretty sure that Clough said that Burke was a player he liked and that the situation would be monitored-the interest only subsided when he signed an extension (which was always likely to happen).

 

Here's a list of club by club activity,so you can make your own mind up re your last paragraph:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/championship/10120670/Championship-Summer-Transfers-2013.html

Not much you can do if the club run a manager dictates transfer policy plan and the manager doesn't want a CB.

[ramblur]

Wasn't Brayford coming to the end of a 3 year contract?

 

As I say doesn't really make much difference, although surprised to see what Ramblur said re wage budget.

 

Certainly wouldn't be surprised if Martin, Grant and Eustace significantly pushed the wage bill up but hopefully offloading Tyson has pulled this down a bit.

Following the revelation,a caller (unsurprisingly) made the point that £2m would equate to £40k/week (in actual fact,nearer to £35k after accounting for employers' NIC).As a base that roughly gives an average £6k/wk over 6 players.When you factor in the departures (to add to the £6k bases) and take into account the element of wages relating to Martin and Forsyth featuring in last year's figures,I can't see it myself (unless,as I said,it's a slick play on words).

[ramblur]

Not much you can do if the club run a manager dictates transfer policy plan and the manager doesn't want a CB.

There are 2 things that Clough said recently that struck me.Following Burnley he was asked about possible incomings and said that there might be a possible loan when the emergency window opens,but was very quick to point out that we still needed to shift a couple.This seems to indicate to me that he's restricted to a loan signing whose wages must be matched by outgoing savings.

 

The thing that really intrigued me was his comment about Will,that no interest so far was a good sign.Now if we aren't going to sell Will without the fee being too good to refuse (big enough to significantly strengthen),then surely we should welcome interest,otherwise we should simply say not for sale,whatever.It does fuel the suspicion that Nigel feels he wouldn't get enough of the funds (if it happened).

[Scott129]

Oh god, I'm turning into Bris 

 

I'll say it how I see it, just frustrated at the PERCEIVED lack of willingness to improve on our part - I think back to the time around the Russell saga to now... just a completely different perspective, also baffles me how competition is good everywhere else in the team, but at the back - it's bad? makes no sense. 

 

I like decisions to at least have a little bit of logic behind them, even if I don't agree with them - what we have done since selling Brayford and onwards to me has been senseless. How can we make a centre back an early priority (early doors) miss out on one or two, lose a player and say we are able to strenghten around the team, to THEN say we're completely happy.

 

How can you be completely happy? QPR are a lot better than us in my opinion, yet they still look to improve... Real Madrid, they are perhaps classed as a little bit better than us, yet.. they have still looked to improve. I just don't get the logic behind 'we're happy with what we have' when arguably we're even good enough for our aims this season. 

 

I'm not entirely sure CB was ever a priority to be honest. The Baptiste interest could have been with the plan of him playing RB, in preparation for Brayford leaving (which was inevitable I think). They weren't exactly optimistic about the whole thing either, I remember the language being used by the club as very wishy-washy. "Well he knows we're interested", "IF he chooses us", that sort of thing. The same goes for Dunne, it didn't seem to be a pressing matter, more of a luxury than a necessity.

 

The whole CB situation, to me, is a massive gamble in order to save a couple of quid. It's obvious O'Brien is highly rated at the club and I think Clough is just praying that there's no injuries before he comes back so that he doesn't have to fork out any fees or extra wages. It's risky either way as we all know how unfortunate the lad has been with injuries and I wouldn't mind betting that he'll pick up another injury at some point this season. And then we'll be back to this position (Barker-depending).

 

The last paragraph all comes down to money. QPR have tons, we have (at most) just under a million. Obviously we SHOULD spend this but we haven't. I have no idea what their intentions are with that, although I hope it's to buy someone in January for that final push instead of just pocketing it. Wishful thinking perhaps

[Ambitious]

I'm not entirely sure CB was ever a priority to be honest. The Baptiste interest could have been with the plan of him playing RB, in preparation for Brayford leaving (which was inevitable I think). They weren't exactly optimistic about the whole thing either, I remember the language being used by the club as very wishy-washy. "Well he knows we're interested", "IF he chooses us", that sort of thing. The same goes for Dunne, it didn't seem to be a pressing matter, more of a luxury than a necessity.

 

The whole CB situation, to me, is a massive gamble in order to save a couple of quid. It's obvious O'Brien is highly rated at the club and I think Clough is just praying that there's no injuries before he comes back so that he doesn't have to fork out any fees or extra wages. It's risky either way as we all know how unfortunate the lad has been with injuries and I wouldn't mind betting that he'll pick up another injury at some point this season. And then we'll be back to this position (Barker-depending).

 

The last paragraph all comes down to money. QPR have tons, we have (at most) just under a million. Obviously we SHOULD spend this but we haven't. I have no idea what their intentions are with that, although I hope it's to buy someone in January for that final push instead of just pocketing it. Wishful thinking perhaps

 

The push in January is something I can't buy into, but I guess it depends on opinion - if you need to improve something why not improve it early on, rather than wait.

 

It's not like we're miraculously going to find out the centre back positions AREN'T the problem, well, I doubt it.

 

I would have been more than happy Dan Burn, Matthew Kilgallon, Elliott Ward, Chris Berra, Miquel, Hobbs and perhaps even Tate.

 

they're players that have moved in the centre back position, within our limitations (you'd think) and we've not moved on them - not saying these out out-right better than Buxton/Keogh but at the very least you'd think they would offer reasonable competition. 

 

We will see anyway, I think over-all the improvements in the strikeforce will stand us in good stead, the midfield natural progression will be good for us but our defence has took a hit, no denying that. 

 

10th last season, I'd take that now - at this moment in time I think it will be difficult to 'better' that.