Albert Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 So we get to pick and choose which nationalities count as foreign?Kind of holes the credibility of the argument below the waterline, don't you think?I'm just using what was set forward in the original post. I guess the idea is that the British Isles are still very connected, whilst Europe can be seen as quite disconnected. It's hardly odd to include Ireland as "non-foreign", particularly when we're discussing whether or not we look overseas to signings. It's not like we signed O'Brien and Hendrick as 18 year olds. Then there's situations with players like Keogh.So yeah, just going with the original post, but it's hardly as though anyone has been "picking and choosing" here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbiean Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 If you spread your scouting too thin you're unlikely to get the best talent from where you've looked. There are arguments for both sides. Indeed but if you don't scout in a certain area then you'll never find anything and scouting in a area for too long will become redundant anyway, in my opinion its most optimal to be constantly searching over different areas (unless you do a Man Utd and set up links with clubs from different countries like the one they did in Belgium for instance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Here is the data for the 10-11 and 11-12 seasons (that is, from the last two complete seasons) where players from the the UK and Ireland are considered "non-foreign" for these purposes. The plot below is done in terms of league position and fraction of time on pitch for foreign players:"PMDPe9d" alt="PMDPe9d">Now, visually... there isn't any correlation there... but we all know your intuition and senses can fool us, so I'll sit down and do a proper analysis of it at some point, see exactly what is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Looks pretty much the same to me. Clubs with more foreign players spread out accross the table. Clubs with very few foreign players between half way and bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Looks more an effect of greater spending if anything, and that certainly isn't the point of this discussion. Any effect though, is very minor here. You can pretty much throw out the idea that having very few foreign players negatively impacts us from that plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxram Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 The correlation in the data looks minimal at best, and on basis shows basically nothing. There's no clear trend and any fitting value from that is probably atrocious. Throw in working off a vague assumption that teams with more foreign players will play more foreign players (even with some teams having more than 14 foreign players) and it becomes clear that there is very little meaning to this. This should be clear enough though as the "trend line" moves from 8th to 6th across the 24 positions. If anything you're shown that the number of foreign players is largely irrelevant, but a more complete analysis should be done before any such conclusions can be drawn. Honest, I think it's silly to correlate where players come from to team performance. We aren't limited by where players come from, we're limited by the funds available to go for our prime targets at key times. The data is crude, the graph shows weak correlation and therefore the conclusion is not exact. I wasn't trying to show we do or don't need foreign players I was just plotting previously discussed data so its easier for people to look at. The assumption is fine. Having more than 11 foreign players would only cause a limit if you put all foreign players in a team before any other. That clearly doesn't happen, not even Watford fill there team from overseas. There is more to the graph than simply being foreign, different styles of football or wage expectations vary from country to country. All the teams that come the closest to being 100% British are outside the top 10, is the british style of football undone by the foreign influence? I believe that's what can be confidently taken, you're being too exact for the discussed data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxram Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Good research Albert. Thanks for following up, must have taken a while. does that include relegated teams from the Prem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Good research Albert. Thanks for following up, must have taken a while.does that include relegated teams from the Prem?What do you mean relegated teams from the Prem? Yes, teams that were relegated in the previous season are included, but it's based on the number of minutes players have played during that season in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxram Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Just that from the original data the relegated teams had far more foreign players, having come from the premier league where everyone seems to buy from abroad. Its a very different situation to a stable championship side building for promotion so I treated them as a separate entity and removed them from the data. Also is that fraction per player per game? 5 foreign players being 0.45? If so then every team averaging less than 1 per game finished in the bottom half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I was just going to ask Alberto if he could put Derby's point in a different colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Here is the data for the 10-11 and 11-12 seasons (that is, from the last two complete seasons) where players from the the UK and Ireland are considered "non-foreign" for these purposes. The plot below is done in terms of league position and fraction of time on pitch for foreign players:"PMDPe9d" alt="PMDPe9d">Now, visually... there isn't any correlation there... but we all know your intuition and senses can fool us, so I'll sit down and do a proper analysis of it at some point, see exactly what is there.I think you are missing a team in 3rd place (unless it was exactly the same) not nit picking but could you do different colours for the seasons? Great work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The two 3rd places are effectively on top of eachother.I think you are missing a team in 3rd place (unless it was exactly the same) not nit picking but could you do different colours for the seasons? Great work though. "smyuh6W" alt="smyuh6W">10/11 is the black square11/12 is the black circle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Just that from the original data the relegated teams had far more foreign players, having come from the premier league where everyone seems to buy from abroad. Its a very different situation to a stable championship side building for promotion so I treated them as a separate entity and removed them from the data.Also is that fraction per player per game? 5 foreign players being 0.45?If so then every team averaging less than 1 per game finished in the bottom halfFraction is fraction of total time on the pitch for all players. That is, 0.4 would represent 40% of the team over the whole season being "foreign". Total number of players and time on the pitch also didn't correlate particularly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 "PMDPe9d" alt="PMDPe9d"> Its quite pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The two 3rd places are effectively on top of eachother."smyuh6W" alt="smyuh6W">10/11 is the black square11/12 is the black circleI thought that might be the case. Thanks Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 MY GOD!!! It's full of stars. For those who can only communicate in fish puns.... MY COD!!! It's full of chars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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