VulcanRam

Football is a fickle game. Made a mistake and will pay for it with a ban. But he still has value to us. When he comes on as sub against Carlisle to nod in the winner that sends us up, everyone will be singing his name.

Ah I totally see where you're coming from - the answer to your question is this: if it brushes the arm of a player on its way into goal, then Waghorn will be ruled the scorer as it touched him last, same as if it brushed off his head or foot. I guess "brush" is subjective as it depends on the deviation of the ball, but that's another point! In that situation it will be deemed handball if the referee sees it (or particularly VAR picks it up) and deems it to have been contact, under Law 12 of it being an offence to score directly from a hand or arm. I think the grey area sits that technically the ball might brush the arm but its so slight that the on field officials miss it (my first reaction to my lad was that Waggy did well to get out of the way of it). I think it's one of those that the on field gives but when VAR looks at the stills they might rule out, similar to lots of VAR decisions we've seen. Hope that helps mate, tbh we've spent far too much time thinking about it but as a ref I love the intricacies of the laws.

Thanks TR, I'm really not sure what you're getting at? If the ball hits a players arm/hand and goes in, it's handball and no goal. If it hits a players arm/hand and he goes on to score immediately, it's no goal. It's got nothing to do with anything else that might or might not have been happening or where the ball might or might not have been travelling. What's not straightforward about that? The rule has actually been changed in recent years (again) - it used to be if the ball hit a players hand/arm (deliberately or not) and a goal was scored directly after by anyone, it was ruled out. It was changed to only being disallowed if it was the players whose arm it hit who scores. Anyway, the goal was given to Wilson which means the officials obviously thought Waghorn hadn't touched it at all. If they thought it had his his hip then he gets the goal. If they thought it had hit his arm they would have to rule it out.

It's immaterial where the ball may or may not be heading or whether the flight of the ball was marginally changed. The law is very clear on this point. Had the officials deemed it had hit Waggy's arm (deliberate or not) and gone directly into the goal or it touches his arm and then another part of his body (ie he shoots or heads in) before entering the goal, it's no goal. It's one of the few straigthtforward parts of the handball law that isn't open to interpretation. The only conclusion is they must have presumed he didn't touch it.

Indeed, the more people bite at their nonsense, the more they will get a kick out of winding people up. Just ignore it and they'll go away.

1Wildsmith 9 save of the season first half, and another great save second half, kicking was a bit off 35Nelson 9 Outstanding performance 3Forsyth 9 Great to have him back, rock solid and good on the ball 6Cashin 9 Head, head, slide tackle, head 23Ward 6.5 Was having a decent game but obviously had a knock 2Wilson 8 run - head - goal 32Adams 9 If we'd had him from day 1 we'd be winning this league, has filled a big gap in team capabilities 4Hourihane 5 doesn't have the legs for games like this 16Thompson 7.5 his bundles of energy are well known, but he's got great feet too 17Sibley 6.5 played well I thought, surprised to see him hooked 20Elder 7 Great corner for the goal, looked to get forward more than previously 7Barkhuizen 6 as a 10 he was ok, looked lost as a 9 and a natural sacrifice after Gayle's injury 10Waghorn 6 led the line well enough 25Gayle 6 so sorry to see him injured 12Smith 8 again, came on and made a big difference with his passing ability 11Méndez-Laing 8 consistently a threat, good defensive work

The upper west stand corner is reserved for staff across the club and community trust, who get 2 x free STs. Previously they'd be left empty if not used, but now staff have to apply for their tickets (they're still free) and after a certain date those not applied for get released for sale.

Yeah I get all that, but can't we be a bit better? Maybe I'm being a snowflake!!

Great points. There is no way the referee could see whether Gayle handled it because Gayle had his back to him. The assistant was on the other side so couldn't have seen it. They both saw Gayle get to the ball first and be taken down, so it was the sensible decision. I loved the comedy VAR call and subsequent hands on head meltdown by their keeper. Perhaps rather than moan at the officials, he shouldn't be rushing out of his goal and giving the referee a decision to make?

Not just that, I'd like to think any player playing at this elite level while observing Ramadan fasting deserves huge credit and support. Had the club communicated it I'd think Adams and any of the other players on the pitch would have received an excellent reception on resumption on the game. Instead, everyone around me at first thought the keeper was playing up again or something. Didn't take long for the penny to drop, but could have been far better managed by the club.

Totally agree. Embarrassing and unnecessary. Makes us every bit as classless and stupid as Birmingham, which I hoped I'd never have to say. Thankfully not many joined in, it was just the usual meatheads who can't wait to have a go at our own fans if the atmosphere dips.

1Wildsmith 6 nowt to do 35Nelson 7 nice and solid 5Bradley 6 good game, nearly gifted PV a goal at the end 6Cashin 7 good game though not really tested 23Ward 7.5 much more like it 8Bird 6 didn’t really drive the team forward against poor opposition 32Adams 6 not as involved as in recent games 4Hourihane 6 17Sibley 7.5 two good goals and attacked well, second half particularly 11Méndez-Laing 5 seems out of form atm 27Blackett-Taylor 6 25Gayle 7 good movement, good goal, if we got him proper service he could be the difference 10Waghorn 6 7Barkhuizen 6 influential in the build up to both goals, but otherwise largely anonymous. Not sure what his role was. 12Smith 6

Which is fine, yet plenty think it would be. I'm one of them, but I'm not going to slaughter Warne as it's not really in my nature plus there are parts of it all which are ok. There's plenty he's done right this season. Tbh, when we've lost, even by the time I've made a 10 minute walk back to the car I'm over it. It doesn't bother me that much, and neither do I get over excited when we win (though obviously that's my preference), which is probably why I place more importance of enjoying the game I'm watching as I've given up most of my day to go.

He's genuinely a nice guy who cares passionately about what his is doing and trying to achieve. He's very popular around the club with the staff. He's a good ambassador for the club and supports the work of the Community Trust. I like that about him regardless of my opinion of him as a football manager.

I think it depends on what your starting point is. If you're starting point is "I want to be entertained" then that will drive your view of our football and your opinions of how the team is managed and plays, as will "I'm not bothered about the football, I just want to win" - same team and manager but a different starting perspective so a different view. If your starting point is "I think this group of players is ok, and so second is ok" then you'll probably be perfectly happy, if you think "This is a very good group of players and they are under performing", then that will drive your viewpoint. Equally, maybe Warne "doing quite a good job" isn't enough for some. Maybe they think at a club our size, with this fan base and a good budget, he should be doing a "good job", or even a "great job". Why should we settle for "quite a good job", which sounds a bit mediocre, they might say? All of these views are valid, and I don't think it's fair to suggest that people being "remotely rational" will only lead to one conclusion.

1Wildsmith 5 kicking was urgh 35Nelson 7 solid, great headband 5Bradley 7 continued his good form, good goal 6Cashin 6 lost his man for the second goal 2Wilson 5 for the million time, not a wing back. When pushed forward he was more effective, though slow getting the ball in 4Hourihane 5 for the millionth time, with Adams in the team he is not really required 7Barkhuizen 6 added a bit of zip to the attack but without much meaning 32Adams 6 Not his usual influence, did a great job getting out of the way of Bradley's header 12Smith 6.5 Came on to pass the ball better, and passed the ball better, more effective in there than Hourihane. 20Elder 6 for the millionth time, not a wing back. But he is a good defender. 24Nyambe 6.5 Big and strong. And big. Could have done with him from the start tbh. 8Bird 🐦 5 Not really in the game 17Sibley 6.5 Added bite and fire to the midfield first half, but also had to play as an attacker, which didn't really work 25Gayle 6 Did he score? Did he not? I still don't know. Flag was up anyway. 11Méndez-Laing 6 for the half millionth time, he's only good when out wide. Please.

And you are free to think what you like, but unless you counted every person in the crowd I’ll go by what club execs told me, and which formed the basis for discussion in a work environment, I imagine they have a far better idea than you. Why would they lie?

Sometimes, sometimes, no 🙂

For sure. Plus we're right in the mix of late so people are making more of an effort to go.

I don't think there's much more the management could have done, there was some the players could. It wasn't a dreadful performance as some might have you believe, but we gave the ball away a lot, passes going into touch unnecessarily, kicking from Wildsmith was very off, failing to find players with relatively simple balls. We made life hard for ourselves sometimes when we didn't have to, which only encouraged Barnsley on. I didn't think there was much between the teams, but neither can I argue with the result.

And there's me thinking you were an expert all the time.

Which I guess is why it was the focus of discussion. I know the club was concerned early season, particularly around hospitality. I can't really say much more other than the numbers have been really good the last couple of months.

Yes, because that's what I was told as per other posts. No reason for the club exec to not tell the truth, and it was quite a long discussion about a related issue. Not just ST, but staff, comps, hospitality as well. Even some who had bought tickets for on the day. I was as surrprised as anyone.

They're the figures that were provided by someone at the club during a discussion, so yes. Lots of talk at the club earlier in the season about ST holders not attending. Not really a problem now.

Yes I was in the second wave as well - not initially but I left the first wave as they were forcing through and I didn't want to get caught up in it. As for the police, they sometimes don't help themselves but they are keeping people off the platform to stop overcrowding and potentially someone falling onto the track. It was the right thing to do, though communication of that was rubbish. The station is tiny and you were straight through the door onto the platform. They only started getting difficult with people when people were being difficult. The real problem was a lack of trains between 5.30 and 6, the busiest time at the station!