maxjam

Well, I appreciate the response. If we could all keep the thread somewhat on track in future for those that 'dare to dream' it would be appreciated. A lot of the stuff you mention do seem like insurmountable problems - similar 'insurmountable' problems we faced when we first thought about going to the Moon. However, I'm 100% certain that NASA, SpaceX etc are aware of the problems and are coming up with solutions. I linked this page from the NASA website previously; https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/humans-to-mars/ Personally, I think its only a matter of time until humans have a permanent presence on both the Moon and Mars. Yes there are huge challenges ahead and the timescales quoted may be optimistic, but I feel confident that I'll see it in my lifetime.

Okay I'll bite, but I'm sticking to the space bit, I've got no time for the continued red pill rubbish. What copious amounts of evidence do you have to suggest that SpaceX aren't going to land on Mars? Without repeating the rocket exploding argument - they went through the exact same process designing the previous rockets and reusable boosters that now haul virtually everything up into space. Furthermore, if you are so adamant SpaceX aren't going to land on Mars do you think they should just simply stop now? Or do you think they should continue to push the boundaries of what may or may not be achievable? If its the latter, do you think those of us that have a genuine interest in the subject would like to discuss it without the thread being continually hijacked by an anti-Musk, anti-[insert forum user] agenda? Ignoring your gut for a moment do you think that NASA, funded by the US Govt - currently one of Musks major fanboys (yes that was irony) would congratulate SpaceX on a successful launch the other day, if it was just a rocket blowing up? And do you think they would have awarded SpaceX the $3bn contract for the moon lander if they were just going to continually blow up the money without gaining data and making progress? It is also worth noting that NASA are not only planning on using the lander designed by SpaceX to land on the Moon, but also the rocket they are currently designing to get them there. And finally, how many people have SpaceX killed so far in testing? How many did NASA kill during testing and live missions? And what leads you think SpaceX will sacrifice anyone? I don't know whether this is up-to-date, but as of the end of August SpaceX has launched 11 crewed missions (42 people) into space - and they have all come back alive. https://spaceexplored.com/2023/08/26/spacex-crewed-flights/ Sure Musk has joked that people might not come back from Mars - the following for example, but Musk says a lot of stupid stuff; "It's dangerous, it's uncomfortable, it's a long journey. You might not come back alive. But it's a glorious adventure, and it'll be an amazing experience," he said. "You might die ... and you probably won't have good food and all these things. It's an arduous and dangerous journey where you may not come back alive, but it's a glorious adventure," Musk said. "Sounds appealing," Musk laughed. https://www.space.com/elon-musk-mars-spacex-risks-astronauts-die But if it gets to the stage that people are strapped in, counting down to take off it will be no different than the astronauts that went to the Moon. President Nixon even had a speech prepared for if the worst happened; 'Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace. These brave men, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, know that there is no hope for their recovery. But they also know that there is hope for mankind in their sacrifice. These two men are laying down their lives in mankind’s most noble goal: the search for truth and understanding. They will be mourned by their families and friends; they will be mourned by their nation; they will be mourned by the people of the world; they will be mourned by a Mother Earth that dared send two of her sons into the unknown. In their exploration, they stirred the people of the world to feel as one; in their sacrifice, they bind more tightly the brotherhood of man. In ancient days, men looked at stars and saw their heroes in the constellations. In modern times, we do much the same, but our heroes are epic men of flesh and blood. Others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man’s search will not be denied. But these men were the first, and they will remain the foremost in our hearts. For every human being who looks up at the moon in the nights to come will know that there is some corner of another world that is forever mankind.' Even the later astronauts during the Shuttle era new the risks were 1 in 75; https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1191013/moon-landing-nasa-odds-total-destruction-mike-massimino-apollo-11-mission-control-spt Later, this was revised down to about 1 in 9; https://www.npr.org/2011/03/04/134265291/early-space-shuttle-flights-riskier-than-estimated Space travel is dangerous, its right on the edge of what is possible and being the first to do anything always carries risk - but the first astronauts won't simply be sacrificial lambs. I'd imagine the rocket will be the most technologically advanced rocket humans will have ever made, tested to the best of our abilities and knowledge and as seen above, the Astronauts will know full well the odds of making it back safely. And if the worst does happen, to paraphrase the above; 'They will be mourned [but] others will follow, and surely find their way home. Man’s search will not be denied.'

Or create a light where non was shining before? I would imagine that if they have gamed the system and created and the amplified results that don't exist, it would be easy to prove.

They may not be catching the attention of the media now-a-days but SpaceX continues to launch rockets into space on a regular basis - this was from a little earlier today; And I still think these are CGI as I'm still not sure how you can land a cylinder upright!!! Despite the laughs and giggles from those that hope Musk fails at everything he touches, SpaceX are actually doing a damn good job right now. This year they launched approx 80% of all material into space. Next year it will launch approx 90% of the worlds payload into space. Not bad for a company for a company that came from nowhere to dominate the industry in a short period of time after suffering numerous rapid unscheduled disassemblies before finally 'learning to fly'. https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/09/spacex-broke-its-record-for-number-of-launches-in-a-year/ Personally, I think you'd be foolish to back against SpaceX making the rocket that gets human to both the Moon and Mars. NASA seem to think they are capable, they are scheduled to use the final version of the Starship and have awarded SpaceX the $3bn moon lander contract.

Yeah I forgot to thank @ramit, he posted another Why Files video a while back. I enjoyed that and ended up watching most of the videos on the channel. The guy does a good job of describing a mystery (and who doesn't enjoy a good mystery!) Then ends with a bunch of facts or opposing views to bring balance or debunk the claims. Its one of the better channels of its ilk on youtube.

Yup, its not worth engaging the obvious trolls, they have got the twitter thread to poke needles in their Elon Musk doll. The next 10 years are going to be really interesting what with NASA and SpaceX both seemingly having the Moon and Mars in their sights. I had only just been born the last time we went to the moon, seeing people walk on the Moon and potentially Mars is something I've been waiting for my whole life.

Good, I'm happy for you 😛

Well there are about 20k highly qualified Americans desperate for the opportunity. https://www.nasa.gov/general/astronaut-requirements/ I'd guess the ESA and SpaceX have similar requirements. For me it boils down to exploration, discovery and human advancement. Why else did people sail over the horizon all those years ago?

Witnessing a launch in person is on my bucket list.

Yep, another 'good day at the office'. And even when things go a bit awry, it still looks spectacular!

Exciting stuff, everything seemed to go well 🙂

Bring ya own bloody chairs...