HenryKrinkle Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Only listened on ramsplayer but Seems like Nigel's changes didn't work at all. Then again it also sounded like Wednesday were already getting the better of us at that point...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 agree with henryk. 5 more mins we'd of lost 3-2. the subs lie with the manager, and yet alot of people dont seem to realise this that young cloughy is also inept with his ability to kill a game. the amount of 80th min to full time goals conceded in his reign is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Got it wrong today. Still doesn't make him tactically inept. Come on you Rams, points on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIMBAUD Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Got it wrong today. Still doesn't make him tactically inept. Come on you Rams, points on the board. yes - he was wrong - but he's blaming jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 agree with henryk. 5 more mins we'd of lost 3-2. the subs lie with the manager, and yet alot of people dont seem to realise this that young cloughy is also inept with his ability to kill a game. the amount of 80th min to full time goals conceded in his reign is laughable. I think you'll find that it actually correlates better with the average age of the squad. I honestly wouldn't be too critical after coming off a 120 minute midweek game either. If we had a striker who could hold it up better, we'd be a more solid unit. Hopefully we sign Sammon in the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 yes - he was wrong - but he's blaming jeff Pardon me, but I do think you'll find that it wasn't Clough's stray pass that led to the goal. In terms of the subs though, what would have you done? We didn't have a striker to hold it up, and the side was tiring. Its not like the pressure came after the substitutions, the subs were in response to that. Sadly, it didn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 yes - he was wrong - but he's blaming jeff I don't think I'd be happy with him either if I was his manager. Both manager and player will learn though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Pardon me, but I do think you'll find that it wasn't Clough's stray pass that led to the goal. In terms of the subs though, what would have you done? I wouldn't have put young inexperienced Gjokaj out of position in midfield and right back O Conner center mid then left midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I wouldn't have put young inexperienced Gjokaj out of position in midfield and right back O Conner center mid then left midfield They weren't playing CM they were sitting between defense and midfield - the role Anderson did, to counter the high ball to their tall guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 They weren't playing CM they were sitting between defense and midfield - the role Anderson did, to counter the high ball to their tall guys. They don't play there o conners a fullback Gjokaj a center half not a sitting defensive midfielder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 They don't play there o conners a fullback Gjokaj a center half not a sitting defensive midfielder Neither was Anderson but he did it well because the role isn't the usual sitting midfielder it is "get your head or foot in through balls" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Neither was Anderson but he did it well because the role isn't the usual sitting midfielder it is "get your head or foot in through balls" The point is it doesn't work. Every time Clough does it we concede late goals other clubs or should I say manages don't do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I really hate this obsession people have with set positions when it comes to late game tactics. The idea was to change the shape to help the defence out when we were under pressure. Yes, they are not defensive midfielders, but they weren't playing there for a whole match. Rather, they were brought on to give the defence a bit more steel. So, you still haven't answered. What would have you done? Remember, the side was already under pressure and tiring, what would have you done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 The point is it doesn't work. Every time Clough does it we concede late goals other clubs or should I say manages don't do it It worked some games last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 The point is it doesn't work. Every time Clough does it we concede late goals other clubs or should I say manages don't do it You have an odd definition of every. I think you'll find that Buxton played that role fairly well coming back from injury last season. In fact, I challenge you to calculate the exact number of times that Clough did that last season, and the number of times it cost us against the number of times it worked. If you can't do that, then don't claim it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I really hate this obsession people have with set positions when it comes to late game tactics. The idea was to change the shape to help the defence out when we were under pressure. Yes, they are not defensive midfielders, but they weren't playing there for a whole match. Rather, they were brought on to give the defence a bit more steel. So, you still haven't answered. What would have you done? Remember, the side was already under pressure and tiring, what would have you done? Midfield 3 Coutts Bryso and Hendrick "holding" Jacobs and Ward wide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 You have an odd definition of every. I think you'll find that Buxton played that role fairly well coming back from injury last season. In fact, I challenge you to calculate the exact number of times that Clough did that last season, and the number of times it cost us against the number of times it worked. If you can't do that, then don't claim it. Don't need to do that Football is a simple game made complicated by bad managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIMBAUD Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Pardon me, but I do think you'll find that it wasn't Clough's stray pass that led to the goal. In terms of the subs though, what would have you done? We didn't have a striker to hold it up, and the side was tiring. Its not like the pressure came after the substitutions, the subs were in response to that. Sadly, it didn't work out. even less likely to hold it up when you take one of the strikers off... id have said - stop hitting aimless long balls and go back to possession football what would you have done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 even less likely to hold it up when you take one of the strikers off... id have said - stop hitting aimless long balls and go back to possession football what would you have done? Not sure really. I honestly don't think there was anything wrong with what Clough tried in theory. Personally I'm one for attacking play so I'd have brought on Jacobs for Hughes during the second half. The issue is that without a striker to hold up the ball, it was always going to be hard to do that once things stopped going our way, and honestly, I'd think that doing that would have gone badly. If not for the goal they scored against the run of play, we could have done a bit better, but hey... Midfield 3 Coutts Bryso and Hendrick "holding" Jacobs and Ward wide Ward apparently looked quite tired, what was the point of keeping him on? Bryson and Coutts aren't holding players either, what on Earth would putting them there help? Also, I checked last year. What I found: - Nigel made a total of 11 defensive substitutions, that is, bringing on a defender in place of a midfielder or striker, whilst in a winning or drawing position last season - 9 of these were when the club was in a winning position and 2 when drawing - Of the 9 in winning positions, Derby won 9 - Of the 2 whilst drawing, Derby drew 2 - Roberts was brought on twice, O'Brien 3 times and Buxton 6 times Conclusion, these moves and the tactics used actually made the side a more solid unit and successfully protected winning positions and drawing positions over the course of last season. Despite claims by Hoggy that this move doomed the side, interestingly it did not do so once last season, much to my own surprise. Any corrections on the above information will be appreciated so long as references to where errors were are made. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Not sure really. I honestly don't think there was anything wrong with what Clough tried in theory. Personally I'm one for attacking play so I'd have brought on Jacobs for Hughes during the second half. The issue is that without a striker to hold up the ball, it was always going to be hard to do that once things stopped going our way, and honestly, I'd think that doing that would have gone badly. If not for the goal they scored against the run of play, we could have done a bit better, but hey... Ward apparently looked quite tired, what was the point of keeping him on? Bryson and Coutts aren't holding players either, what on Earth would putting them there help? Also, I checked last year. What I found: - Nigel made a total of 11 defensive substitutions, that is, bringing on a defender in place of a midfielder or striker, whilst in a winning or drawing position last season - 9 of these were when the club was in a winning position and 2 when drawing - Of the 9 in winning positions, Derby won 9 - Of the 2 whilst drawing, Derby drew 2 - Roberts was brought on twice, O'Brien 3 times and Buxton 6 times Conclusion, these moves and the tactics used actually made the side a more solid unit and successfully protected winning positions and drawing positions over the course of last season. Despite claims by Hoggy that this move doomed the side, interestingly it did not do so once last season, much to my own surprise. Any corrections on the above information will be appreciated so long as references to where errors were are made. Have a nice day. What happened today then clever person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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