smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 So you agree quite a few players have come to Derby recently and played well below their ability, wonder why, nothing to do with the management or staff is it ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Clough got more out of Hulse than Warnock did and Clough got a hell of a lot more out of the same team when he took over Paul Jewell. Nothing to do with the management or staff is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Clough got more out of Hulse than Warnock did and Clough got a hell of a lot more out of the same team when he took over Paul Jewell. Nothing to do with the management or staff is it? What about the players Clough signed, that you admit were signed on their ability that have failed . What I am saying is that your arguements are all one sided, every good thing Clough does is fantastic, but when he flucks up its not his fault, ever. According to you the last person like Clough ended up nailed to a cross I'll leave it there, have the last word by all means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 What about the players Clough signed, that you admit were signed on their ability that have failed . What I am saying is that your arguements are all one sided, every good thing Clough does is fantastic, but when he flucks up its not his fault, ever. According to you the last person like Clough ended up nailed to a cross I'll leave it there, have the last word by all means I do see what Clough does wrong, he does a hell of a lot wrong. If I wanted a quick return to the premiership, he probably wouldn't be my man for the job, but people seem very one sided and negative towards him, so instead of giving my honest opinion it ends up becoming a very one sided positive view towards Clough, I want him here for sentiment value and I agree if his name was Paul Jewell or Gary Megson or Brian Laws. I probably would of gave up on him a while ago but I want him to become a success because of his name, a chant of Clough out would leave a sour taste in my mouth, a very sour taste. I will stick by the man, see how he does my stand point will never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 This is so interesting - I can't think of too many clubs where a manager divides opinion so much. In my opinion he's a good young manager who has been dealt some bad cards. Having said that, I'm sure he knew what he was walking in to, and was probably aware that, barring some sort of miracle, he'd never have the supporters jumping for joy in the first couple of seasons. For that I genuinely admire the bloke. It's almost turned out worse for him that we had the good run in the first place. Someone on here said what a Jekyll and Hyde season it was last year - some of the best, and worst football seen at Derby for years. It was a team so low on confidence, and as soon as the second goal went in against Burnley, the confidence slipping away was visible. We had a run of punching well above our weight. Look at the Swansea team that went up - I think they're streets ahead of us, and we were in that position in the autumn. Has he made mistakes? Definitely, but just like any other manager. To then suggest he's out of his depth, and not up to the job is wide of the mark. The quality of our squad wasn't so good that we couldn't go down - if he was out of his depth, we would've done. The biggest one that gets me was the criticism of playing Brayford at centre half against forest and Watford - people forget he was probably our best defender away at Ipswich, amongst others, at centre half. Jury is out regarding his talent in the transfer market. He's bought some very good players, and some have flopped. This season is his biggest spree by far, so I'm judging him on this Summer's activity. The romance of the Clough name doesn't hold any importance for me with regard to Nigel being here - I wasn't even an idea when we were winning trophies. I just think he's pretty steady at his job. This is the first summer of unity and financial stability, and as such I'm not making any judgement on the squad he assembles until a third of the way in. For the first time in his tenure he's not being forced to sell, and we're in a position to invest. I'm really looking forward to the new season. That it's a kind of last chance saloon for Clough is common knowledge, and we can't finish 19th again, but if it's common knowledge, why continue to mention it every other post? It feels like people are setting him up to fail, and when anyone criticises it, the standard line is 'I want Derby to do well, but he's not up to the job'. Based on what? The simple fact is there were no managers around at the time we recruited NC that the board would be prepared to pay for who could've had a positive impact on that squad. Looking back, it's clear to see what a mess we've been in, and we're only just coming out the other side of that. How most of the blame can be apportioned to the management rather than the ownership of the club is baffling. Do you think any established Championship manager would be told that he'd have to cut the wage bill emphatically, and take the job? They'd laugh out the room. I'm pretty sure this post will get shot down in the next ten minutes, but it's just my ten pence worth. I think he did well to keep us up, and I think he'll do well with the squad he puts together this Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I'm not talking about Clough here, I'm talking in general and it seem to be Croft/Martin/Roberts as well are the players we brought in on merit! Croft was a POTY in this division, Martin tore us apart in a game in the transfer market and Roberts was key to a midtable doncaster side. This season Doncaster blame their lowly league position on losing a consistent solid defenders in both Roberts and Shackell. Martin tore us apart in one game, in January so I could believe we brought him on that one game rather than watching him over a period of time! As I said, if you watch players over a period of time you eliminate the risk, although just like spending money not all the time as moving clubs can be hard for some players, having watched Ben Davies 20+ times for instance, I know what sort of player he can be an absolutely brilliant player on the ball, very good technically and dangerous, his first touch and passing range is as good as I've seen in the football league, he came here and just hasn't produced anything close to what I was expecting, although I still think he will shine, just like I expect Torres to shine at Chelsea! So take Ben Davies for example, he is now 29, and this is the highest level he has played at, are you saying he has been overlooked in his time as a footballer ?? You can watch a player a million times, and he can look like a world beater, but if he comes from a lower league, you dont know if he can perform at a higher level, hence why the transfer fee is normally lower than a proven player. Yes you can try to sign these sort of players, and maybe you will make an improvement year on year, but generally the teams that do well are the ones that splash the cash. At the moment we have not spent any big money, and therefore what we are doing, is at best signing potential, noone can tell me that signing Robinsion is on the same level as say Chopra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamD Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Can't you make yer own mind up? Just saying. personally i like clough but im not sure if its cuz his dads my idol or cuz hes done a ok job and i was just wondering what others thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 personally i like clough but im not sure if its cuz his dads my idol or cuz hes done a ok job and i was just wumming. fixed that for you...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 So you agree quite a few players have come to Derby recently and played well below their ability, wonder why, nothing to do with the management or staff is it ?. Clough managed to get a bunch of nobodies at Burton from the Southern Premier to League two... Nothing to do with management ability there. Clough had a team 16 points clear in the Blue Square Premier whilst Roy Mac nearly blew the lead from January, nothing to do with management there. Nigel has kept a team playing fairly well whilst taking the wage bill to a half or a third of what it was when he arrived, nothing to do with management there. We were 4th weeks out from Christmas whilst playing the best football we've seen in years despite having lost our top scorer and best player from previous seasons in August, nothing to do with management there. Nigel got Commons to play to the best of his ability, nothing to do with management there. ... What about the players Clough signed, that you admit were signed on their ability that have failed . What I am saying is that your arguements are all one sided, every good thing Clough does is fantastic, but when he flucks up its not his fault, ever. According to you the last person like Clough ended up nailed to a cross I'll leave it there, have the last word by all means Who had Nigel signed who was meant to be great that failed... Croft? That's really about it. Let's look at all his "Big Signings" then: 08/09: Chris Porter ~£400k - Injury ruined his time here, but he was pretty good early on 09/10: Lee Croft - Free - Was okay at the start, fell out of the team. Not really a big signing either, there was some hype though. Dean Moxey - £300k - Was poor at first, got better, then worse, then sold. Shaun Barker ~ £900k - Great Player, player of the season and a great team player having played a season injured. 10/11: John Brayford - ? - Great signing James Bailey - ? - Also a great signing Gareth Roberts - Free - Okay, not great Tomacz Cywka - Free - Good player, though inconsistent Ben Davies - £350k - Hasn't really had the time yet, but hasn't been great So, where in there are all those failed signings? He's signed a lot of players on free and bugger all wages to fill out the squad like Anderson, Buxton, Pringle and such, but there are the "big signings". Looking at that we've got Brayford, Bailey and Barker in the good, Croft, Moxey in the bad with Davies, Roberts and Cywka undecided and Porter irrelevant (due to injury). I'm getting sick of this rubbish that's constantly posted. Nigel has done a damn good job on nothing, and now we're backing him some people are still complaining. After 3 years of being told to slash costs, grit his teeth and bare it I think he deserves some faith. We'll see though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 We should sack Clough straight away then and get Steve Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 We should sack Clough straight away then and get Steve Evans Possibly the worst post of all time. That makes no sense what so ever. Steve Evans took over Crawly in the Blue Square Premier and was only promoted this season. He also spent over £200k, a huge amount in the non-leagues. On the other hand Nigel produced the same feat, from a worse position. Nigel also has some level of contacts at the top level. On top of all of that Nigel is our current manager, and sacking a manager should be based on something more than just "that guy looks like he could do a better job". I know you're just saying it to strawman Nigel's achievements as a manager, but really, useless post! To add to this you completely avoided how your point about Nigel's signings being poor being both false and unfair. Hey, maybe having the decency to admit you were wrong is just a bit too much for you. Apparently changing the topic as quick as possible is a much better way to deal with things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 We should sack Clough straight away then and get Steve Evans I either want to like this for the LOL factor, or get in touch with Admin to ban this user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 As an aside, he's also a crook that pretty much took Boston United under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Possibly the worst post of all time. That makes no sense what so ever. Steve Evans took over Crawly in the Blue Square Premier and was only promoted this season. He also spent over £200k, a huge amount in the non-leagues. On the other hand Nigel produced the same feat, from a worse position. Nigel also has some level of contacts at the top level. On top of all of that Nigel is our current manager, and sacking a manager should be based on something more than just "that guy looks like he could do a better job". I know you're just saying it to strawman Nigel's achievements as a manager, but really, useless post! Not at all, you keep bragging about Clough at Burton, Evans did it in a third of the time with Crawley , so by YOUR standards he must be a better manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramjam Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Not at all, you keep bragging about Clough at Burton, Evans did it in a third of the time with Crawley , so by YOUR standards he must be a better manager. Dont bother Albert, its a waste of time...Its pretty obvious this is not what YOU said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 The investment/funding situation is now somewhere around ‘neutral’. We still haven’t the funds to bring in anyone of similar quality to Commons and it was the quality of Commons that was key to our ‘purple patches’ in both 09/10 and 10/11.You just have to hope that that by the end of this transfer window the new signings will end up being better than the sum of their parts. My guess is that if Nigel manages to get the team playing more attractive football and makes mid table (ish) by the end of next season then the fans wont get on his back and he’ll have another season to try and make us realistic contenders for promotion (with a similar neutral budget of course). A much better option would be to replace our useless owners with a friendly, free spending, Peak district loving, Russian oligarch who appreciates the hard work of Tom Glick and the strong attachment most fans have for Nigel Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Clough managed to get a bunch of nobodies at Burton from the Southern Premier to League two... Nothing to do with management ability there. Clough had a team 16 points clear in the Blue Square Premier whilst Roy Mac nearly blew the lead from January, nothing to do with management there. Nigel has kept a team playing fairly well whilst taking the wage bill to a half or a third of what it was when he arrived, nothing to do with management there. We were 4th weeks out from Christmas whilst playing the best football we've seen in years despite having lost our top scorer and best player from previous seasons in August, nothing to do with management there. Nigel got Commons to play to the best of his ability, nothing to do with management there. ... Who had Nigel signed who was meant to be great that failed... Croft? That's really about it. Let's look at all his "Big Signings" then: 08/09: Chris Porter ~£400k - Injury ruined his time here, but he was pretty good early on 09/10: Lee Croft - Free - Was okay at the start, fell out of the team. Not really a big signing either, there was some hype though. Dean Moxey - £300k - Was poor at first, got better, then worse, then sold. Shaun Barker ~ £900k - Great Player, player of the season and a great team player having played a season injured. 10/11: John Brayford - ? - Great signing James Bailey - ? - Also a great signing Gareth Roberts - Free - Okay, not great Tomacz Cywka - Free - Good player, though inconsistent Ben Davies - £350k - Hasn't really had the time yet, but hasn't been great So, where in there are all those failed signings? He's signed a lot of players on free and bugger all wages to fill out the squad like Anderson, Buxton, Pringle and such, but there are the "big signings". Looking at that we've got Brayford, Bailey and Barker in the good, Croft, Moxey in the bad with Davies, Roberts and Cywka undecided and Porter irrelevant (due to injury). I'm getting sick of this rubbish that's constantly posted. Nigel has done a damn good job on nothing, and now we're backing him some people are still complaining. After 3 years of being told to slash costs, grit his teeth and bare it I think he deserves some faith. We'll see though. Is there anything such as free players ? Surely you have to look at the successes against the fails, and so far its pretty even, add to your list Martin, and extending Savage for a year. Also Im not sure how you can call Bailey a great signing...yet. I dont believe that he has had the tools to prove himself yet, but Im not sure how you can say he has done a good job, he has made imo some bad management calls throughout last year that resulted in us only just escaping relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 There is NO if about it, it most definitly was NOT me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 There is NO if about it, it most definitly was NOT me. http://www.paphos-dog-training.com/images/Bad%20puppy OK smiffy, I believe you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcfcdavecov Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 When do we give up on Clough this thread?? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....oohh look a woman http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/gemma_atkinson_06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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