Van der MoodHoover Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I'm sort of with YR on this one. what i would look for is signs - ANY signs - of managerial competence aka training being applied and then being worked out on the pitch. To my, admittedly simple, business mind the managers job is something like.... - know what you're good at - know what you aren't - hire better people than you at than stuff you're not good at - inspire them, staff and players (not motivate - INSPIRE) so they will literally "die in a ditch" for you - then make the tough calls if it aint working out So.... where are we then? I'm sure there are folks that would answer the above as..... - know what you're good at.......cutting the wage bill./saying yes - know what you aren't.......errrrrrrr - hire better people than you at than stuff you're not good at.........are you having a giraffe? ok - i MIGHT allow Jonny M, but that massive fat bloke who is the nutritionist.....HAH! - inspire tham (not motivate - INSPIRE) so they will literally "die in a ditch" for you..........ok, well.......errrr..... I have no problem whatsoever in acknowledging Cloughies successes, however we choose to define them, but i do wish to be opbjective on where he is falling short (no pun intended). The fact my old lady worships the ground his shadow falls upon is no reason to stop this critical appraisal. note to all others.....I have no advocacy for another manager. Who would have done better? - I suspect the annals of football are littered with short term motivation monkeys - what about that guy from Sutton Utd all those years ago - beat Cov and then read his players Kipling (or some such ********) before the next round at Norwich before they got stuffed 8-0. Point is - we are about an objective assessment of NC. We all HOPE he will do better, but what signs do we have that this is likely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 missed the first link, and thanks for the complete spending review as it shows their is little difference between us and most clubs in the division except the top 6 spenders. I'll post the full breakdown for you tomorrow YR. For some reason my google at home is giving different results than google in the office. That list of summer spending is not showing many fees - undisclosed seems to be the order of the day. I thought you were trying to say our spending was comparable to most and much bigger than those around us? I did say at the start that it was probably a waste of time. I dont think you want to see this any other way. Your mind is made up. In my opinion there has been no real investment in the playing staff for the last two seasons. The ins have definitely been funded by the outs. Now the board have cleared the decks, NC has got rid of the dead wood (most of it at least) they look to have invested substantially and sensibly this time around, with more still to come. Key season coming up. Exciting times. Could we have just a little bit of enthusiasm for a week or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 i actually said apart from the top 6 clubs, the amount you estimated at 1.4 million, with an addition of bueno's loan of around 800k we are close to everyone else in how much we spent, not net spend but just spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 did you know..... that Brian had won all his major trophies with Derby and Forest by the time he was the same age as Nigel is now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake n Bake Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I think that if we don't beat Brum then it confirms that the signings are ***** and Clough sucks. Or we could see where we are at the end of the season (of course assuming we aren't bottom at xmas!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 did you know..... that Brian had won all his major trophies with Derby and Forest by the time he was the same age as Nigel is now..... I'd say the League Cup (rumbelows. littlewoods) was pretty prestigious back then RamNut. In fact BC was very succesful late 80's early 90's. He was a little bit older than 45 then I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceland Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Maybe not now but when he was signed during the wage restructure he was and until Fielding and Ledz...? was signed we may still have needed him, just because he isn't required anymore doesn't make him a mistake I never said he was a mistake :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Croft is still here vying for a place as is martin- unfortunate change of system may still could come good. Deeney- youngster, Pringle-youngster- I personally would have kept him, Porter- hip exploded but looked good until then, Anderson- looks steady enough, don't see why you think he's a mistake? Moxey- steady enough, sold for a decent sum. Loans- Always a gamble and don't often cost much My thoughts are that Clough has from the start been given loads of time and slightly above average funds, ffantastic facilities (Super Training Complex) and subtantial resources, yet there are at least 6 or 7 signings that he has made that are either now surplus to requirements (Croft, Martin), injured (Porter and in particular, Anderson had a long history of injuries) Moxey (a buy for the future yet bombed out) - so why buy these type of players if you are building long term and for the future? As for loans there has only been a couple that have done well, the rest have taken us backwards imo as it stops our own Youth coming in. As for the theory that the release of Savage and his obscene wages (23K and thereafter two further years instigated by Clough at £15K per week - extended by Clough), will NOW allow us to buy or fund better players this is a key factor in my thoughts on the team and finances in the last couple of seasons. Surely if Savage had have been released 2 years ago, that would have created the chance then to buy and pay bertter players to improve the squad and get rid of useless overpaid mugs like him? BTW I am not moaning, just my opinion and ideas as to why we haven't done as well as I think we should do with our set up. Clough has to take responsibility and this season is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I'd say the League Cup (rumbelows. littlewoods) was pretty prestigious back then RamNut. not a major trophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I never said he was a mistake :confused: Sorry mate, that was kind of directed to TR! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 My thoughts are that Clough has from the start been given loads of time and slightly above average funds, ffantastic facilities (Super Training Complex) and subtantial resources, yet there are at least 6 or 7 signings that he has made that are either now surplus to requirements (Croft, Martin), injured (Porter and in particular, Anderson had a long history of injuries) Moxey (a buy for the future yet bombed out) - so why buy these type of players if you are building long term and for the future? As for loans there has only been a couple that have done well, the rest have taken us backwards imo as it stops our own Youth coming in. As for the theory that the release of Savage and his obscene wages (23K and thereafter two further years instigated by Clough at £15K per week - extended by Clough), will NOW allow us to buy or fund better players this is a key factor in my thoughts on the team and finances in the last couple of seasons. Surely if Savage had have been released 2 years ago, that would have created the chance then to buy and pay bertter players to improve the squad and get rid of useless overpaid mugs like him? BTW I am not moaning, just my opinion and ideas as to why we haven't done as well as I think we should do with our set up. Clough has to take responsibility and this season is key. Not moaning either mate and I agree with the youth players not really being a chance- it seems to be happening now with Ball and all of the strikers we are signing that will be ahead in the pecking order. Why we played moxey up front instead of giving one of the young uns a chance I don't know. I think a few of the signings made last season are maybe a bit dodgy but it was where the club were at the time and the best of a bad job. Of course I would have liked us to sign better players but they weren't in the remit at the time. Hopefully we are now moving on to players that will be more than a stop gap and we will find a bit of quality and a system that works for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkletoes Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 i think this is nigels last throw of the dice tbh .. no results bye bey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Not moaning either mate and I agree with the youth players not really being a chance- it seems to be happening now with Ball and all of the strikers we are signing that will be ahead in the pecking order. Why we played moxey up front instead of giving one of the young uns a chance I don't know. I think a few of the signings made last season are maybe a bit dodgy but it was where the club were at the time and the best of a bad job. Of course I would have liked us to sign better players but they weren't in the remit at the time. Hopefully we are now moving on to players that will be more than a stop gap and we will find a bit of quality and a system that works for us Fair enough mate and I for one am very happy with the players brought in so far, just wished we could have done this 2 seasons ago. Looking forward to the new season, only 6 weeks away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkletoes Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 cant wait for the season to start;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Fair enough mate and I for one am very happy with the players brought in so far, just wished we could have done this 2 seasons ago. Looking forward to the new season, only 6 weeks away Me too! Genuinely excited this time:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 This looks a good team/squad I think there will be at least 5 of these leaving and 2 more coming in including the left back we need. ****************** Frank Fielding John Brayford Shaun Barker Jason Shackell Gareth Roberts Tomasz Cywka James Bailey Craig Bryson Jamie Ward Chris Maguire Nathan Tyson SQUAD: Theo Robinson Ben Davies Stephen Pearson Conor Doyle Steve Davies Callum Ball Jeff Hendrick Jake Buxton Luke Varney Lee Croft Dean Leacock David Martin Stephen Bywater Ross Atkins James SevernMark O’Brien INJURED/CUP TIED/SUSPENDED/INTERNATIONAL DUTY: Paul Green (Jan 2012) OUT ON LOAN: Miles Addison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 july......we think we're going to do much better august....its sunny.....we're still in a good mood sept.....up and down oct.....in the groove nov.....going dark....dropping off xmas....excited about boxing day, jan...out of the cup...who are we going to buy feb....sh1te march.....still sh1te april....green shoots of recovery may...who are we going to sign this summer june....have they signed yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Hold on there Muttley, Clough has gone on record that he will only pay what he thinks a player is worth, so maybe his COMPETING may be below others, so he will still miss good players, just a thougtht Come off it smiffy, do you honestly believe Clough has a mandate from the board to go out and bid £3m for one player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Personally, i think that derby county are to far in to 'give up' on clough! I think that now begins the time when fans can actually fairly judge clough on his actions though because it is effectively his team now and he has spent money! if this was a pub argument I'd have you round the throat and be telling you to keep the fook out of it, as its not, how you doing tricky? excited by the brolly man yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Tree Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 if this was a pub argument I'd have you round the throat and be telling you to keep the fook out of it, as its not, how you doing tricky? excited by the brolly man yet? Yeah not bad mate, yourself?! im a little bemused with the goings on at forest tbh; slightly concerned that we finished the season with a relatively small squad and since then have lost wilson, tyson, adebola and mckenna with potentially moose n earnie to add to that! When i first heard we had signed mclaren my initial thought was bugger!! lol, but now im thinking this may just be a master stroke. One thing is clear though if forest only finish in play offs then its a bad appointment because he will be on alot more than davies and will have achieved the same; make no mistake this is a huge season for forest and so far (like they always do), they are making a mess of it!!!!! Now where are them razor blades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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