StaffsRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Well I just feel that if he was called Graham Ballsack and he had ginger hair, he'd be slated for yesterday's peformance. For me, it's not use saying "no one else was on his wavelength" etc, because that's useless to us. It's no use saying "well if that pass was to Messi, he would of controlled that", because we have players like Stephen Pearson and Theo Robinson in our team. The flaw in your argument here though is that you're identifying the symptom and not the problem. Bueno's not the problem, it's the fact that we DO have players like Pearson and Robinson, not that we have someone like Bueno. By extension to your argument we should get rid of anyone who's better than our worst players so that everyone's in sync. His performance for me was summed up when Bueno broke away, had Pearson running off to his left, and had the simplest pass in the world to execute. He delayed and delayed before stroking it out for a throw in. And there was also that time he layed the ball off to no one, and skinned himself out for a goal-kick.... Did anyone give away more goalkicks than Pearson? Beyond the first few minutes their RB had him figured out completely. Show him outside because he has no right foot and can't cross anyway - que Pearson trying to go around him and running it out for a goalkick. In the second half it looked as though Bueno simply decided it wasn't worth passing him the ball if he could help it. I'm sure we could get better than Theo Robinson, but I reckon he's worth his small transfer fee, and the money saved could be spent on a quality player. Theo Robinson will probably cost around £250k, and yesterday that would have bought you our one shot on target. Bueno's £1m loan fee wouldn't even have bought you that. Robinson's not worth the hit on the wagebill. As for yesterday, Bueno had a shot on target within the first few minutes, just after Robinson had fluffed his shot straight at the keeper. It was blocked early in flight but definitely on target. Personally, I hope that we opt out of future interest in either of them. Bueno's too costly and Robinson isn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorecambeRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 As I said if he comes back from the summer a different player the gamble will have paid off. Pace without control is nothing and I really don't think that 22 year olds should need coaching to control a ball. No they shouldn`t but obviously he does or maybe nerves get the better of him who knows?I`d sooner have him running at a defence than the likes of say Porter.People seem quick to shoot a player down before they`ve been given a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Well I'm arguing that if Bueno doesn't have the player around him to follow up his passes, surely he has the intelligence to realise he just has to make it simple. And is he really that good if only good players can control his passes? I'm playing devil's advocate here, becuase I'm a Bueno fan, but yesterday I felt he had a very very poor game. As for Theo? Well I usually side with players who get an unfair deal like our Theo. I can see why he's in our team and I think he's affective. But why sign up to a forum if you're going to post around thinking you're right all the time? You've won the argument, I agree with you, we could get a better impact player and he's probably not worth a punt. However, I wouldn't ask for my season ticket money back if we did sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Well I'm arguing that if Bueno doesn't have the player around him to follow up his passes, surely he has the intelligence to realise he just has to make it simple. And is he really that good if only good players can control his passes? The problem being that you can only dumb it down so far. Yesterday, players couldn't even read two-yard passes. I'm playing devil's advocate here, becuase I'm a Bueno fan, but yesterday I felt he had a very very poor game. Personally, I thought that he was the best of a bad bunch, although yes, by his own standards it wasn't his greatest game. As for Theo? Well I usually side with players who get an unfair deal like our Theo. I can see why he's in our team and I think he's affective. The problem that I have with Theo is that we've just spent a painful few years stripping the wagebill, I don't want to be taking that many gambles with it that set us back again. I'd let him go back to Millwall and assess what options we do have in the summer. But why sign up to a forum if you're going to post around thinking you're right all the time? You've won the argument, I agree with you, we could get a better impact player and he's probably not worth a punt. It's not about winning mate, just airing my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Well I'm arguing that if Bueno doesn't have the player around him to follow up his passes, surely he has the intelligence to realise he just has to make it simple. And is he really that good if only good players can control his passes? I'm playing devil's advocate here, becuase I'm a Bueno fan, but yesterday I felt he had a very very poor game. As for Theo? Well I usually side with players who get an unfair deal like our Theo. I can see why he's in our team and I think he's affective. But why sign up to a forum if you're going to post around thinking you're right all the time? You've won the argument, I agree with you, we could get a better impact player and he's probably not worth a punt. However, I wouldn't ask for my season ticket money back if we did sign him. That's what i like about you Duracell, your willing to change your opinion. Usually when someone points out i'm wrong i find it best to just vanish for a few days. Threaten someone on youtube. Perhaps by calling them a "Beiber fanboy" or a "n00b"? and then come back here even stronger. One step closer to internet domination. It's nice when a debate can be resolved without name calling. Anyway, enough with the lovey-stuff. Makes me emotional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 No they shouldn`t but obviously he does or maybe nerves get the better of him who knows?I`d sooner have him running at a defence than the likes of say Porter.People seem quick to shoot a player down before they`ve been given a chance. I said I would be happy to give him pre season to prove himself. I think 9 or 10 games is enough to judge what a player is like and I stick by my point that it is embarrassing having a player who cant control a ball. People are going on about his pace but honestly how many times has it caused defences trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 That's what i like about you Duracell, your willing to change your opinion. Wasn't the OP of this thread having a go at those that had 'changed their mind about Theo'.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 People are going on about his pace but honestly how many times has it caused defences trouble? My brother made a similar point yesterday at the game. If it's just about the pace then we'd be as well trying to sign up Dwain Chambers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 I said I would be happy to give him pre season to prove himself. I think 9 or 10 games is enough to judge what a player is like and I stick by my point that it is embarrassing having a player who cant control a ball. People are going on about his pace but honestly how many times has it caused defences trouble? When his pace has caused problems is as a sub against tired legs. I don't mind him on the bench. But for pace alone i still rate Dave Martin. He's been rapid on the few occasions i've seen him. Tyson, Martin, Robinson, Pearson if Nigel wants pace then he can get it. Not sure it'll answer his prayers though. Commons,Green,Cywka,Bueno aren't especially fast. But i know which 4 i'd rather see in the oppositions line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sadly I think Martin's done at the club. Can't see Nigel reverting back to using wingers and I suspect that Martin and Croft will probably both go in the summer. I certainly appreciate the effect of pace on tired legs, but as G Star says, you've got to have the ability to go with it. If we do sign him then he's got to be working on his ball control through the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 That's what i like about you Duracell, your willing to change your opinion. Usually when someone points out i'm wrong i find it best to just vanish for a few days. Threaten someone on youtube. Perhaps by calling them a "Beiber fanboy" or a "n00b"? and then come back here even stronger. One step closer to internet domination. It's nice when a debate can be resolved without name calling. Anyway, enough with the lovey-stuff. Makes me emotional. Don't praise me now, just vote for me as poster-of-the-year in December instead The only award missing from my trophy cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorecambeRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I said I would be happy to give him pre season to prove himself. I think 9 or 10 games is enough to judge what a player is like and I stick by my point that it is embarrassing having a player who cant control a ball. People are going on about his pace but honestly how many times has it caused defences trouble? Leeds game for one they couldn`t handle him and he set B.Davies up perfectly only for him to miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Wasn't the OP of this thread having a go at those that had 'changed their mind about Theo'.......? He was accusing fans of being fickle about him. I wasn't fickle, you put your point across well and I accepted it, therefore I'm cool with the OP....I hope :redface: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 He was accusing fans of being fickle about him. I wasn't fickle, you put your point across well and I accepted it, therefore I'm cool with the OP....I hope :redface: I was jesting about the OP...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 The problem with Theo is his contribution to the overall game, scoring aside. It is almost like playing with 10 men in the sense that he just isn't up to retaining or making use of possession. He is a bumbling wreck that uses his pace to take 1 in 10 chances he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sadly I think Martin's done at the club. Can't see Nigel reverting back to using wingers and I suspect that Martin and Croft will probably both go in the summer. I certainly appreciate the effect of pace on tired legs, but as G Star says, you've got to have the ability to go with it. If we do sign him then he's got to be working on his ball control through the summer. Don't think Martin has been given the fair chance that some players have had. Roberts has had a few (and come good it seems). Pearson has had many. Leacock a couple. Pringle a few. Porter...... but Martin scored in the final game of last season v Cardiff and has only had 10 mins here and there since he arrived otherwise. Won't be too dissapointed if he goes (struggling to fit the system and all that? What formation we played since before his loan move to Notts?) but surely if all Theo needs is work on his control and end product...... Martin and Pearson are already here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Leeds game for one they couldn`t handle him and he set B.Davies up perfectly only for him to miss it. Don't remember that being from his pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Don't think Martin has been given the fair chance that some players have had. Roberts has had a few (and come good it seems). Pearson has had many. Leacock a couple. Pringle a few. Porter...... but Martin scored in the final game of last season v Cardiff and has only had 10 mins here and there since he arrived otherwise. Won't be too dissapointed if he goes (struggling to fit the system and all that? What formation we played since before his loan move to Notts?) but surely if all Theo needs is work on his control and end product...... Martin and Pearson are already here? Agree with both points there - Not been given a fair chance really, because of the change in system, but won't be that bothered about him going as it's pointless keeping him if he's not going to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorecambeRam Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Don't remember that being from his pace. Really ok the steam off my bovril must of blurred my vision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Really ok the steam off my bovril must of blurred my vision You might be right but i thought it was more of a two on one breakaway as opposed to him speeding past defenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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