It's only because his name is Clough

[blackNwhites]

Don't get me wrong. The solid minded approach on a boggy pitch to Ssausagehorpe may not have been a bad idea. We got a clean sheet after all. But we're not just playing it on a rain soaked cut up pitch, it's becoming our formation like it was last year.

I know we haven't got the scope to rotate but we have got the scope to play players in their right places. There seems to be this idea that we have to play people out of position, at the same time we have to change formation. Well if we didn't change formation then we wouldn't have to play players out of position. Watford away was a prime example of needlessly playing players out of position, if I'd have put the players that played that game I doubt anyone on here or any other board would have put them in the positions they played in. Bailey looked lost, we lacked attacking from the full backs, etc because players were out of position. This isn't a one of it's just the one I think highlights it most.

We can't rotate players no, we don't have the squad for that. When players are tired or lacking form then we can't freshen it up, and it's a problem, a problem that GSE and a lack of investment need to take responsibility for. But we can still put out a team that has round pegs in rounds holes. I could understand if we'd played 4-4-2 all season and lost some wingers but rather than lose our shape etc we stuck two attacking center mids on the wing. But to change it to 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 when we have no wingers doesn't make sense to me.

To a certain extent i agree RE: Formation.

4:5:1 against Leicester looked so unambitious i couldn't see anything working out for us. We then went to 4:4:2 which looked better, if only for Leicester playing less adventurously.

For me we haven't got the players for that, we have so much inexperience in the squad now we're playing certain players like Pearson, Green, Addison, Brayford, Pringle, Cywka and S.Davies in varying different positions throughout a game never mind game to game.

Which is why i'd like to see 4:2:3:1, just because i think we have the players for it and we're more likely to score. The negative being likely to concede as well.

I sympathise with Clough having to juggle an incomplete squad, trying to fit them together to work efficiently and, to a certain extent that is working. We just look highly unlikely to score, unless we get a lucky break.

Hopefully we get this Hayes fellow and whoever else it was he's (Clough) interested in (McCarthy?) so we have options going forward and Cywka and Davies can play on the wings. Although i'm not really sure where there best position is, but it's an option.

[rynny]

blackNwhites I think the 4-2-3-1 formation wouldn't work at the moment as we don't have the striker to play it. But it is a difficult decision for Clough, personally I would go for 4-3-1-2 might fit the players in better.

[blackNwhites]

blackNwhites I think the 4-2-3-1 formation wouldn't work at the moment as we don't have the striker to play it. But it is a difficult decision for Clough, personally I would go for 4-3-1-2 might fit the players in better.

We don't really have a striker, i also think midfield is quite weak considering the amount of players we have available there. Don't really offer support defensively or offensively.

I think we kind of play 4:3:1:2 don't we? At home anyway, Bueno the 1 behind the 'strikers' (forwards).

[WilkoRam]

You could even play a 5-2-1-2 like we did under Smith. Ayala, Barker and Leacock at the back. Brayford and Roberts told to bomb forward. Take your pick for the two in the middle and either Cywka, Bueno or Davies behind the front men. There's options that fit the players better in my view be it 4-2-3-1, 4-3-1-2, 5-3-2, etc playing a system suited to wingers with no wingers just doesn't seem necessary. But then I'm not a football manager, maybe that's the reason why.

[WorksopRam]

You could even play a 5-2-1-2 like we did under Smith. Ayala, Barker and Leacock at the back. Brayford and Roberts told to bomb forward. Take your pick for the two in the middle and either Cywka, Bueno or Davies behind the front men. There's options that fit the players better in my view be it 4-2-3-1, 4-3-1-2, 5-3-2, etc playing a system suited to wingers with no wingers just doesn't seem necessary. But then I'm not a football manager, maybe that's the reason why.

Quite like the sound of that.

Bywater

Brayford Barker Ayala Leacock Roberts

Addison Bailey

Bueno

Ward S.Davies

[blackNwhites]

Quite like the sound of that.

Bywater

Brayford Barker Ayala Leacock Roberts

Addison Bailey

Bueno

Ward S.Davies

Works in theory, would like to see it to.

[ANGERMAN1]

Bywater

Brayford

Roberts

Barker

Ayala

Addison

Bailey

Davies

Ward

Bueno

Davies

IMO, This is the best XI that we are capable of putting out at the moment. Talking about the obsession with formations and seeing the variety is pretty interesting. But, as it stands, The back 4 (plus Bywater) picks itself. And also agreed is that Addison is comfortable defending but maybe not playing long balls/wildly hoofing from the center of the pitch to try and aid the strikers. This would make me want to position half of the team like this;

Bywater

Brayford Barker Ayala Roberts

Addison

Now, I believe that Bailey is the best passer of the ball for us, so to have him in a CM role and not DM would make his job easier of assisting our strikeforce. This leaves B Davies, S Davies, Ward and Bueno to 'shoe-horn' into a team (Considering I class NONE as an out an out striker, This is the best I can do)

Bailey B Davies

Ward Bueno S Davies

Think this literally is the best we can do. And I'm sure it's been suggested/knocked back many times over.

[ANGERMAN1]

Would probably end up as a 4-1-4-1 and see a lazy Bueno isolated.....But ho hum.....:mad:

[WilkoRam]

Or a 4-1-2-3 a bit like what Barcelona play (although they play it with style)

Valdes

Alves Puyol Pique Abidal

Busquets

Iniesta Xavi

Messi Villa Pedro

Our very much a lesser version of the formation would be

Bywater

Brayford Ayala Barker Roberts

Addison

Bailey B Davies

Bueno Ward S Davies

It could work in theory if we could go back to passing the ball.

[ANGERMAN1]

Or a 4-1-2-3 a bit like what Barcelona play (although they play it with style)

Valdes

Alves Puyol Pique Abidal

Busquets

Iniesta Xavi

Messi Villa Pedro

Our very much a lesser version of the formation would be

Bywater

Brayford Ayala Barker Roberts

Addison

Bailey B Davies

Bueno Ward S Davies

It could work in theory if we could go back to passing the ball.

Yeah true, That's how I imagined it to pan out. And if it's good enough for Barcelona.........hehe

Either way. I guess constant tinkering won't get us back on track, But does look the best on paper. Can't wait to see us start to play like Barcelona now tho!!

[RotherhamRam]

What this basically tells me with all the comments about the formation is no one has a clue about the formation. We are judging these formations based on the players being

a) on form

b) wanting to play for Derby and not wanting to be elsewhere like Hulse and Commons

c) 100% fit (important one I think)

d) able to play the formation for the game

e) not banned or liable to be banned before the next game where you need him due to other problems.

Now we do not know what happens on the training field, every niggle, every problem the players are facing which may prevent them from performing and may affect whether they are able to play. These factors are only some of the areas Clough and Co have to think about prior to each game. Then add to this the limited size, experience, age we have at DCFC and this further compounds the issues, then add on there you can not get your targets which you ask for in areas we all agree are required and he has stated we need.

Then for me you can start to see why players may be out of position, the formation change or what is believed poor tactics. An example is when Addison was on bench prior to his screws coming out. People asked why he was not playing or why come on for last 10mins. One he played because we were short, he was still injured hence the foot surgery and the 10mins was more psycological for him then necessary for the club.

[ANGERMAN1]

What this basically tells me with all the comments about the formation is no one has a clue about the formation. We are judging these formations based on the players being

a) on form

b) wanting to play for Derby and not wanting to be elsewhere like Hulse and Commons

c) 100% fit (important one I think)

d) able to play the formation for the game

e) not banned or liable to be banned before the next game where you need him due to other problems.

Now we do not know what happens on the training field, every niggle, every problem the players are facing which may prevent them from performing and may affect whether they are able to play. These factors are only some of the areas Clough and Co have to think about prior to each game. Then add to this the limited size, experience, age we have at DCFC and this further compounds the issues, then add on there you can not get your targets which you ask for in areas we all agree are required and he has stated we need.

Then for me you can start to see why players may be out of position, the formation change or what is believed poor tactics. An example is when Addison was on bench prior to his screws coming out. People asked why he was not playing or why come on for last 10mins. One he played because we were short, he was still injured hence the foot surgery and the 10mins was more psycological for him then necessary for the club.

Not really, I respect the other points you make, but considering everything has been deconstructed already (About 10000000 times by now). It's good to see what our best formation is and what other fans views are on the matter and how they'd do things differently, It is a forum after all.

But to be honest, I dont think the formation IS the most important factor here either. It is the players within it and a few of the points you've made. The simple fact that we are lacking out and out strikers and most people being drafted in are 'ex' wide players (Let's hope we do get Hayes!!) is what's worrying me most. The lack of cover, the loss of confidence, the poor press interviews by clough, the increasing lack of support for the club.

Thay are ALL far more important than the formation, But if you havn't got a simple system in place then you start to exhaust a whole host of ideas and this surely can't help the inexperienced players. We've seen a few formations come and go and quite a lot of tinkering, That is why I choose to express my views on what the system should be.

I also do not consider myself to be an able manager lol.

[ANGERMAN1]

Quite like the sound of that.

Bywater

Brayford Barker Ayala Leacock Roberts

Addison Bailey

Bueno

Ward S.Davies

Don't like the sound of that. Bailey would have sole responsibility of linking the defence with attack. Still relatively young shoulders, No-one capable of passing to alongside him who can get the ball forward. Bailey would be 'bossed-out' by any opposing manager and our performances would drop. Either that or a campaign built by 0-0's and boring football???

[WilkoRam]

What this basically tells me with all the comments about the formation is no one has a clue about the formation. We are judging these formations based on the players being

a) on form

b) wanting to play for Derby and not wanting to be elsewhere like Hulse and Commons

c) 100% fit (important one I think)

d) able to play the formation for the game

e) not banned or liable to be banned before the next game where you need him due to other problems.

Now we do not know what happens on the training field, every niggle, every problem the players are facing which may prevent them from performing and may affect whether they are able to play. These factors are only some of the areas Clough and Co have to think about prior to each game. Then add to this the limited size, experience, age we have at DCFC and this further compounds the issues, then add on there you can not get your targets which you ask for in areas we all agree are required and he has stated we need.

Then for me you can start to see why players may be out of position, the formation change or what is believed poor tactics. An example is when Addison was on bench prior to his screws coming out. People asked why he was not playing or why come on for last 10mins. One he played because we were short, he was still injured hence the foot surgery and the 10mins was more psycological for him then necessary for the club.

What it says to me is that 'as fans' we all have an opinion about formations and best XI, it was refreshing to talk about this sort of thing again rather than all the other off the pitch drama. Most of the selections use players who are available so it doesn't really suggest he has to play players out of position, he chooses to, simple. Now that's his choice, he's the manager and as fans we'll have our own view on how the team sets up, all fans do. But can we stop with 'poor Nigel with no other choice' as he does, it may be the right choice and we may be worse off with what we've all come up but it is still a choice to play those players, put the others on the bench and play a 4-4-2.