footymadme Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 spot on................................................ In respect of the game on Saturday and Cwyka/Clough issue can we please put a line under the issue. I have seen comments about Clough being racist - That is a joke. His comment referred to returning to Wigan or wherever he came from. This was not related to being Polish it was related to a football club incase it was not Wigan. This is people trying to stir something just to look important. The comments made on radio, everyone has their own views on an issue whether right or wrong. Now if Cywka was truly bothered about comments he could have worded his statement to indicate this. He does not he states he wants to continue to learn from Clough and Co, he has been supported by Clough and staff and fans and is committed to fight for first team football and the Derby COunty board. States he has not spoken to PFA. Now if there was an issue he could have just said something like "this matter is now concluded lets move on" or "this matter is now in the hands of the PFA" or just said nothing. This is being used by a weapon as some, possible making some people feel important, some are possibly angry with the comments, some can't see the problem and so on and everyone has a right to their views. But keeping this discussion going is doing nothing but damaging DCFC fan support and detracting from the main issue which is in relation to how our club is being run by the owners and the fact we are having to rely on young inexperienced 22yr olds who until this year have not a) played first team football B) not played at this level. This frustration should be aimed at the board first once action there is completed either in form of investment or they leave, then focus on manager if need to. Changing the manager or not backing him through this critical time will let them off the hook and if he does go we still have them but we will have to give them more time due to the change in the manager. Therefore message is stop bitching and get supporting and then protesting against the important issues at hand if this is what you want to do. We have to decide what we want most GSE out or a change in management. For me it is GSE, their ship, their ownership, their funding, their policies re transfers/wages etc the buck lies there rotherhamram. lets move on now and get behind the lads on sat vs festering. and those of you who like moaning but dont go to games .... but a ticket for sat...........................................................:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TelTheRam Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Issue between Cywka & Clough ------------------------------ line drawn (or several small lines) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Issue between Cywka & Clough ------------------------------ line drawn (or several small lines) You could have used the undelrine function like this Issue between Cywka and Clough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Pete, as one who (not unlike myself) regularly challenges posters for wearing blinkers, I fear you're falling into the same trap on this one. I've read the DET interview. First off, Cywka is unlikely to state anything other than full support of his manager (just as we've both agreed many times that Clough is unlikely to state anything other than his full support of GSE). Granted, this isn't to say that it's not true either. But this quote in the article, from Gordon Taylor, is quite telling: "I can understand the sense of frustration at losing a goal so late in a game and sometimes things are said that might be best unsaid." Do you think Gordon Taylor is condoning Clough's behaviour here or politely condemning it within the context of 'we all make mistakes' (in a way that Nigel Clough might be well advised to learn from?). As I wrote earlier on in another thread and as SilentRam has very articulately stated in this one, how Cywka reacted is only half the problem. There are certain standards of behaviour that any ambassador of a club should maintain - from the chairman down to the tea lady - and Nigel failed to do that in this case. Spot on. What makes it worse is the imbalance of power - Clough can say what he likes while if Cywka says anything other than 'i don't mind' then he is out on his ear. How much he earns is a separate issue. Whether it would be acceptable in the army is irrelevant (although they more than anyone keep things inside the tent - you won't get a general going on tv to slag off his own soldiers). Neither does the fact Nigel got this one wrong in any way distract attention from (correct) criticism of the board. Most intelligent people can hold two thoughts in their heads at once. The people who worry me are those who seem to believe Nigel is always right or always wrong. Suggests an unwillingness to treat each issue on its merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Spot on. What makes it worse is the imbalance of power - Clough can say what he likes while if Cywka says anything other than 'i don't mind' then he is out on his ear. How much he earns is a separate issue. Whether it would be acceptable in the army is irrelevant (although they more than anyone keep things inside the tent - you won't get a general going on tv to slag off his own soldiers). Neither does the fact Nigel got this one wrong in any way distract attention from (correct) criticism of the board. Most intelligent people can hold two thoughts in their heads at once. The people who worry me are those who seem to believe Nigel is always right or always wrong. Suggests an unwillingness to treat each issue on its merits. I was beginning to think it was just me who thinks Clough is out of order! Spot on comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I was beginning to think it was just me who thinks Clough is out of order! Spot on comments. oh, and it isn't an interview. It is a carefully worded statement released by the club and used word for word by the paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastKentRam Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 How many top managers do you see abuse one of their own players in public to the extent as what Clough did? None. Why? Cos they're not f*cking stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 How many top managers do you see abuse one of their own players in public to the extent as what Clough did? None. Why? Cos they're not f*cking stupid. I think Nigel Clough won't make it tbh. Too long in non-league football where it didn't really matter. I should have known as I spent 10 years listening to his comments on Radio Derby when Gibson interviewed him and he wasn't very good then. TBF I wasn't listening as intently as I do now he is our Boss, but for all those years I seem to recall his stubborn attitude which obviously didn't matter as much in front of 1,150 fans at Burton. To think he could step up and become a League Manager at a Mighty Club like Derby with League players and proper tactics etc. was too much of a dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think Nigel Clough won't make it tbh. Too long in non-league football where it didn't really matter. I should have known as I spent 10 years listening to his comments on Radio Derby when Gibson interviewed him and he wasn't very good then. TBF I wasn't listening as intently as I do now he is our Boss, but for all those years I seem to recall his stubborn attitude which obviously didn't matter as much in front of 1,150 fans at Burton. To think he could step up and become a League Manager at a Mighty Club like Derby with League players and proper tactics etc. was too much of a dream... I don't know mate, I understand what you're saying but I still think he deserves a chance with a bit of money to spend. If he could shop at Sainsburys instead of Poundland we'd be able to judge him properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 To suggest that non-league football doesn't matter is absoloute crap. A mighty club? Really? Are you stuck in the 1970's? We are not a mighty club, by any stretch of the imagination. We were for a few years, for a long time we've just been a second tier club with a large fanbase. League players are the same as non league players, except they're just more talented. You see every character you would do in the lower leagues, but they're just better players and earning more. And tactics hardly change that much, to suggest that the tactics at non league level are totally inferior to league football is also pretty stupid. Are you intentionally trying to wind people up here or are you just that foolish? Why the need for the insults Alex? Foolish, stupid etc. you quote yet it is just MY OPINION. :mad: If you disagree just say so without the need for insults. And yes in my mind we are THE MIGHTY DERBY COUNTY - I think that after supporting my club for over 50 years and watching them play on over 100 different grounds and not missing a home game for over 40 years (even though for 20+ years I lived in Yorkshire and Rutland) I qualify as being able to say MIGHTY Derby without someone I don't know calling me NAMES on a message board just because you disagree with what I have written.:mad: Leave me alone and let me air my views or do not respond in fututre sunshine... Regards The Ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I don't know mate, I understand what you're saying but I still think he deserves a chance with a bit of money to spend. If he could shop at Sainsburys instead of Poundland we'd be able to judge him properly. Yes I agree, and I too think he deserves a chance, especially if he can get back to the way we were playing in Oct/Nov last year. I am anti Yanks etc and been very pro Clough, however I think his attitude over the attack on Cwykwa has been very poor and I have said as much in several threads. It has made me think that he is not up to it, and his non-league credentials may be his undoing unless he gets some professionalism into these attacks on players. It is abundantly obvious that many people are upset by his attitude, and he is not like his Father who I suspect would clout him round the earhole for being so disrespectful to his players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 To suggest that non-league football doesn't matter is absoloute crap. A mighty club? Really? Are you stuck in the 1970's? We are not a mighty club, by any stretch of the imagination. We were for a few years, for a long time we've just been a second tier club with a large fanbase. League players are the same as non league players, except they're just more talented. You see every character you would do in the lower leagues, but they're just better players and earning more. And tactics hardly change that much, to suggest that the tactics at non league level are totally inferior to league football is also pretty stupid. Are you intentionally trying to wind people up here or are you just that foolish? Not sure this is entirely fair. Don't agree with the original post but i do think it reasonable to assume that in general higher league managers will be better than lower league managers. Some lower league managers will be able to step up and some will not. Same as with players but probably less precise. Size is relative and we are closer to Liverpool than Burton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Well I apologise, but if you say things like 'non-league football doesn't matter' then I will respond in that manner. Just because you've supported Derby for 50 years doesn't make us a mighty club. A mighty club is Liverpool, Manchester United etc. We are a mere after thought these days, we are not mighty. You can think we are all you like, but we're not. People thinking we're a mighty club are stuck in the past. Perhaps I shouldn't have used insults, but such ignorance for Nigels past achievements and non league football on the whole has p1ssed me off. Such statements will result in this response. Please refrain from insults in future or I shall report you to the Administrators. I am entitled to my opinion and just because you do not agree you insult me - please stop! It is MY opinion and I find your replies disrespectful. Your last reply is nearly as bad, and I would suggest you stop and think before you write any more calling me stupid, ignorant etc. and READ what I have written as you have totally mis-quoted me to suit your own argument. I will say it again to ME We are The MIGHTY Derby County. Get it???? I am a fan a massive fan I don't watch anyone else or care about any other teams GET IT?????? The MIGHTY DCFC end of... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Not sure this is entirely fair. Don't agree with the original post but i do think it reasonable to assume that in general higher league managers will be better than lower league managers. Some lower league managers will be able to step up and some will not. Same as with players but probably less precise. Size is relative and we are closer to Liverpool than Burton. Almost every manager has started at Nigels level, and if not they've merely been lucky enough to get given a higher league job with no previous experience. Hes managed for a long time, regardless of it being in the conference. He has experience, and has had nearly three years in the Championship at possibly the most difficult job going in this league and has at the very least proved himself competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roofio Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Agree with you Alex W. It annoys me people say we 'deserve' to be in the big time just because we won the title a couple of times in the 70's. A LOT has changed since the 70's, apart from we kick a sphere towards a goal and get cheered/booed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Almost every manager has started at Nigels level, and if not they've merely been lucky enough to get given a higher league job with no previous experience. Hes managed for a long time, regardless of it being in the conference. He has experience, and has had nearly three years in the Championship at possibly the most difficult job going in this league and has at the very least proved himself competent. I'm not saying he hasn't proved himself competent at this level. Personally i think he's made good signings and until he has reasonable financial support we cannot really judge his ability. But a track record at a higher level counts for more than the same at a lower level - surely that is a reasonable point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex W Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I'm not saying he hasn't proved himself competent at this level. Personally i think he's made good signings and until he has reasonable financial support we cannot really judge his ability. But a track record at a higher level counts for more than the same at a lower level - surely that is a reasonable point? Agreed, but not to the point where it becomes irrelevant, that's all I was saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonwright Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Agreed, but not to the point where it becomes irrelevant, that's all I was saying fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If your opinion is stupid, why should I not call it such? To suggest that non league football doesn't matter, when there are thousands of passionate fans and footballers who play in it is nothing short of f*ckwitttery. Feel free to report the post, I really do not care. If you're going to be so disrespectful to thousands of people then I really think you should be able to take a few harsh comments, sunshine. Feel free to think we're mighty all you want. Doesn't make it true of course Stop the insults please! My opinion is we ARE MIGHTY DCFC as I LOVE the CLUB - MY CLUB and I don't have to swear or slag off fellow lifelong Rams fans like you are doing, You probably still haven't read what I wrote, just want to call me names because your little argument does not fit with mine. If you do not like it or disagree, don't respond... simples sunshine WE ARE THE MIGHTY DERBY COUNTY - even if you don't think so - thousands of others do . Goodnight MIGHTY DERBY COUNTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 It amazes me that any fan of DCFC can have a go at me for writing WE ARE THE MIGHTY DERBY COUNTY That is what I believe - I love MY Club I don't watch anyone else never have never will. I'm not harking back to the 70's or whenever. I live for today and I truly love MY CLUB. I have nearly died for DCFC and fought and carried the flag (literally) to 100 different grounds. Why the animosity? Just cause my opinion is different to yours. PLEASE STOP AND THINK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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