PC, Anti-Clough brigade please back off a bit now

[RotherhamRam]

In respect of the game on Saturday and Cwyka/Clough issue can we please put a line under the issue.

I have seen comments about Clough being racist - That is a joke. His comment referred to returning to Wigan or wherever he came from. This was not related to being Polish it was related to a football club incase it was not Wigan. This is people trying to stir something just to look important.

The comments made on radio, everyone has their own views on an issue whether right or wrong. Now if Cywka was truly bothered about comments he could have worded his statement to indicate this. He does not he states he wants to continue to learn from Clough and Co, he has been supported by Clough and staff and fans and is committed to fight for first team football and the Derby COunty board. States he has not spoken to PFA. Now if there was an issue he could have just said something like "this matter is now concluded lets move on" or "this matter is now in the hands of the PFA" or just said nothing.

This is being used by a weapon as some, possible making some people feel important, some are possibly angry with the comments, some can't see the problem and so on and everyone has a right to their views. But keeping this discussion going is doing nothing but damaging DCFC fan support and detracting from the main issue which is in relation to how our club is being run by the owners and the fact we are having to rely on young inexperienced 22yr olds who until this year have not a) played first team football B) not played at this level. This frustration should be aimed at the board first once action there is completed either in form of investment or they leave, then focus on manager if need to. Changing the manager or not backing him through this critical time will let them off the hook and if he does go we still have them but we will have to give them more time due to the change in the manager.

Therefore message is stop bitching and get supporting and then protesting against the important issues at hand if this is what you want to do. We have to decide what we want most GSE out or a change in management. For me it is GSE, their ship, their ownership, their funding, their policies re transfers/wages etc the buck lies there

[Asanovic]

In respect of the game since Saturday and Cwyka/Clough issue can we please put a line under the issue.

I have seen comments about Clough being racist - That is a joke I work in the field of law and in no way was his comments racist. His comment referred to returning to Wigan or wherever he came from. This was not related to being Polish it was related to a football club incase it was not Wigan. This is people trying to stir something just to look important.

The comments, everyone has their own views on an issue whether right or wrong. Now if Cywka was truly bothered about comments he could have worded his statement to indicate this. He does not he states he wants to continue to learn from Clough and Co, he has been supported by Clough and staff and fans and is committed to fight for first team football and the Derby COunty board. States he has not spoken to PFA. Now if there was an issue he could have just said something like "this matter is now concluded lets move on" or "this matter is now in the hands of the PFA" or just said nothing.

This is being used by a weapon as some, possible making some people feel important, some are possibly angry with the comments, some can't see the problem and so on. But keeping this discussion going is doing nothing but damaging DCFC fan support and detracting from the main issue which is in relation to how club is beingg run by the owners and the fact we are having to rely on young inexperienced 22yr olds who until this year have not a) played first team football B) not played at this level. This frustration should be aimed at the board first once action there is completed either inform of investment or they leave, then focus on manager if need to. Changing the manager or not backing him through this critical time will let them off the hook and if he does go we still have them but we will have to give them more time due to change in manager. This way they go first or act.

Therefore message is stop bitching and get supporting and then protesting against the important issues at hand if this is what you want to do.

100% agree with every word.

[VulcanRam]

In respect of the game on Saturday and Cwyka/Clough issue can we please put a line under the issue.

I have seen comments about Clough being racist - That is a joke. His comment referred to returning to Wigan or wherever he came from. This was not related to being Polish it was related to a football club incase it was not Wigan. This is people trying to stir something just to look important.

The comments made on radio, everyone has their own views on an issue whether right or wrong. Now if Cywka was truly bothered about comments he could have worded his statement to indicate this. He does not he states he wants to continue to learn from Clough and Co, he has been supported by Clough and staff and fans and is committed to fight for first team football and the Derby COunty board. States he has not spoken to PFA. Now if there was an issue he could have just said something like "this matter is now concluded lets move on" or "this matter is now in the hands of the PFA" or just said nothing.

This is being used by a weapon as some, possible making some people feel important, some are possibly angry with the comments, some can't see the problem and so on and everyone has a right to their views. But keeping this discussion going is doing nothing but damaging DCFC fan support and detracting from the main issue which is in relation to how our club is being run by the owners and the fact we are having to rely on young inexperienced 22yr olds who until this year have not a) played first team football B) not played at this level. This frustration should be aimed at the board first once action there is completed either in form of investment or they leave, then focus on manager if need to. Changing the manager or not backing him through this critical time will let them off the hook and if he does go we still have them but we will have to give them more time due to the change in the manager.

Therefore message is stop bitching and get supporting and then protesting against the important issues at hand if this is what you want to do. We have to decide what we want most GSE out or a change in management. For me it is GSE, their ship, their ownership, their funding, their policies re transfers/wages etc the buck lies there

I agree with the sentiment about drawing a line under it, although you must be incredibly naive if you think cywka was going to say anything else!

[the464444]

In respect of the game on Saturday and Cwyka/Clough issue can we please put a line under the issue.

I have seen comments about Clough being racist - That is a joke. His comment referred to returning to Wigan or wherever he came from. This was not related to being Polish it was related to a football club incase it was not Wigan. This is people trying to stir something just to look important.

The comments made on radio, everyone has their own views on an issue whether right or wrong. Now if Cywka was truly bothered about comments he could have worded his statement to indicate this. He does not he states he wants to continue to learn from Clough and Co, he has been supported by Clough and staff and fans and is committed to fight for first team football and the Derby COunty board. States he has not spoken to PFA. Now if there was an issue he could have just said something like "this matter is now concluded lets move on" or "this matter is now in the hands of the PFA" or just said nothing.

This is being used by a weapon as some, possible making some people feel important, some are possibly angry with the comments, some can't see the problem and so on and everyone has a right to their views. But keeping this discussion going is doing nothing but damaging DCFC fan support and detracting from the main issue which is in relation to how our club is being run by the owners and the fact we are having to rely on young inexperienced 22yr olds who until this year have not a) played first team football B) not played at this level. This frustration should be aimed at the board first once action there is completed either in form of investment or they leave, then focus on manager if need to. Changing the manager or not backing him through this critical time will let them off the hook and if he does go we still have them but we will have to give them more time due to the change in the manager.

Therefore message is stop bitching and get supporting and then protesting against the important issues at hand if this is what you want to do. We have to decide what we want most GSE out or a change in management. For me it is GSE, their ship, their ownership, their funding, their policies re transfers/wages etc the buck lies there

Yeah Ok, agreed about the board, but in what world is publicly criticizing a "young inexperienced 22yr old" a good idea? And, for my money, Cywka, despite his age, is one of the better players we've seen for the past few years.

[SilentRam]

100% agree with every word.

I don't agree with every word. I agree with some parts of it, but like with many aspects of my life, I am free to support the club that I love in the way that I want.

Yes I totally agree that the GSE are not taking the club forward in the way I had hoped and yes they are to blame for some of the problems the club faces.

I also was a very staunch blind loyalist to Nigel until the end of last season. I know we had a patch with a good series of results but I am not happy with the manner in which Nigel chooses to conduct himself. He has every right to speak about players in the manner in which he sees fit. He is the manager and he manages the team the way he likes.

I want the manager of the club I support to be able to act in ways that I find acceptable. I personally don't find the way he singles out players (whether it works or not) in public professional in the least. Some of you may disagree, but I am not sure why we ALL have to support Nigel, or we ALL have to want him out, or we ALL have to think the same way about anything that happens at Derby.

We are fans, we have our opinions, end of. This post itself just inflames the situation by actually making out to seem that those that found Nigel's comments the last straw, are in the wrong.

If you want the topic to close, you need to do it in a neutral manner, i.e. Clough said something, some people thought it was good, some thought it was bad and some didn't care. Lets move on. End of.

Instead it was turned into yet another post that is scattered with opinions and in which Derby fans have the right to agree or disagree with, in what ever manner they seem fit.

[Alex W]

It strikes me that perhaps it would be better for every internet forum to be closed, as there are too many different views for anything said on here to ever matter.

Never going to happen, but just a thought.

[PeteDerby]

So in the thread that asks people to stop being a bunch of moaning minnies and get behind the manager and the team, some of you just carry on acting like moaning minnies.

I can't believe the horseshit I've heard about this overblown Cwyka issue. These are professional sportsmen earning more per month than most fans earn in a year, not NHS clerical clerks. It's a pressure job, and goes with the territory.

Are you all going to start complaining about the way people are spoken to in the armed forces now - all those nasty wasty drill sergeants telling them 'orrible pieces of **** to gerra move on' when they're learning the ropes?

I understand some of you are just being kind natured (as well as those who are just looking to put the knife in Clough), but the footballers I know and have spoken to in the past couple of days just think all of this is a joke, wound up by people with an axe to grind (Radio Derby) who don't understand the game, or think sports management is the same as running an office or a shop floor.

As the thread says, let's drop it an move on. The real enemy is an under-funded squad and lack of confidence. We can't do much about getting players in, but we can do our bit by stopping squabbling and bitching about the manager.

[The Ram]

So in the thread that asks people to stop being a bunch of moaning minnies and get behind the manager and the team, some of you just carry on acting like moaning minnies.

I can't believe the horseshit I've heard about this overblown Cwyka issue. These are professional sportsmen earning more per month than most fans earn in a year, not NHS clerical clerks. It's a pressure job, and goes with the territory.

Are you all going to start complaining about the way people are spoken to in the armed forces now - all those nasty wasty drill sergeants telling them 'orrible pieces of **** to gerra move on' when they're learning the ropes?

I understand some of you are just being kind natured (as well as those who are just looking to put the knife in Clough), but the footballers I know and have spoken to in the past couple of days just think all of this is a joke, wound up by people with an axe to grind (Radio Derby) who don't understand the game, or think sports management is the same as running an office or a shop floor.

As the thread says, let's drop it an move on. The real enemy is an under-funded squad and lack of confidence. We can't do much about getting players in, but we can do our bit by stopping squabbling and bitching about the manager.

Normally agree with your posts, but in this case, sorry I completely disagree. Clough is well out of order imo and should apologise if he wants to retain the fans backing.

And why do you write Radio Derby have an axe to grind? I thought they reported it as it was local news, big news in fact, as it was a shocking attack which has caused alot of **** to fly around.

Finally Pete - It's no good blaming the fans who discuss these issues on message boards, it is Clough who made the mistake and I think he could pay for it with the sack if results don't improve.

My opinion is Clough appears to be out of his depth and it is showing as the pressure is on.

[Stimacked]

Normally agree with your posts, but in this case, sorry I completely disagree. Clough is well out of order imo and should apologise if he wants to retain the fans backing.

And why do you write Radio Derby have an axe to grind? I thought they reported it as it was local news, big news in fact, as it was a shocking attack which has caused alot of **** to fly around.

Finally Pete - It's no good blaming the fans who discuss these issues on message boards, it is Clough who made the mistake and I think he could pay for it with the sack if results don't improve.

My opinion is Clough appears to be out of his depth and it is showing as the pressure is on.[/QUOTE]

The reason that Clough is under such massive pressure

apart from his obvious family connections with the club

(Any other manager would certainly have resigned long back)

is because he has been forced to put out a side to represent Derby which by all stretches of imagination is under strength, inexperienced an partly made up of untried players at this level.

Cwyka shoulden`t have even been out there on the pitch, but who did we have instead, youth player Conor Doyle.

Clough has been denied funds to build a team capable of competing at this level because of the lack of genuine investment from the board. This is the reason that our results have been so poor and that the pressure is so big. Clough has not been able to strengthen when we desperately needed to in Jaunuary.Clough desperately needed new faces in early January.Ben Davies finally arrived but if you count the young pro's and loanees I think its 6 who left, including two key players for the squad.

This has to be the weakest Derby squad we have had in the last 10 years.

Why.

The board have made it so.

The uproar over Clough's angry comments over Cwyka has distracted everyone from the real problems. Clough has been left hanging out on a tightrope by the board to take all the flack.

[GboroRam]

I have seen comments about Clough being racist - That is a joke. His comment referred to returning to Wigan or wherever he came from.

Can't leave without commenting here. This time he said going back to Wigan - last time he said he can go back to Poland.

So that's twice he's referred to this particular overseas player "going back" somewhere. First time was out of line - second time is just conveniently changing the words a little bit, but reinforcing the same message.

I think Clough doesn't like Cywka which is fine - manager's prerogative. If he's tired of him, get shut, and replace. But do it with a minimum of fuss.

As for the sentiment of moving on, I will do - until the next thing that happens that I don't agree with. If Clough was sacked today, would you be prepared to stay quiet and not complain for the good of team morale?

[Asanovic]

Normally agree with your posts, but in this case, sorry I completely disagree. Clough is well out of order imo and should apologise if he wants to retain the fans backing.

And why do you write Radio Derby have an axe to grind? I thought they reported it as it was local news, big news in fact, as it was a shocking attack which has caused alot of **** to fly around.

Finally Pete - It's no good blaming the fans who discuss these issues on message boards, it is Clough who made the mistake and I think he could pay for it with the sack if results don't improve.

My opinion is Clough appears to be out of his depth and it is showing as the pressure is on.

Totally disagree. No one knows what goes on in the dressing room, no one knows what motivates these players. If Cwyka now has a terrible run of form then I'll make a judgement then, but my understanding is he had the same approach at Burton and took them to the Football League.

Some fans will never back him, for their own reasons. 'His name got him the job', 'he makes bad subs', 'he slates players'. If Cwyka was man of the match on Saturday against Leicester, some people will still say it's out of order that Clough gave that interview after Portsmouth. That's how ridiculous this has got. I don't think he's made a mistake, as you say.

It's only caused **** to fly around because supporters come on forums like this making out it's a bigger deal than it was. Clough has said no more on it, Cwyka has spoken (written by the press or not, who cares? If he really disagreed with it he wouldn't have said it) to say it's no big deal. Now get on with supporting your team.

[PeteDerby]

Good post Stimacked (edit - and Ace)

Hope the rest of you have a look at the DET site and see that the player himself isn't bothered in the slightest.

Some burk tried to spin it that he's been forced to say that. How about it's the truth and he really isn't bothered - so you all just back off and stop drawing attention to the lad, and let him do as he asks and concentrate on improving his game and getting in the team?

With this squad I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities to have a go a Clough before the season is out, but this one is done to death and you're just hurting the player.

[uttoxram75]

Away from the internet forums and phone ins the conversation about Cywka and Clough go something like -

"bloody hell, Cloughie had a right go at the Polish lad after the match"

"yeah, he was fuming. What time you in the pub saturday for the Leicester match?"

"about 2-30, see you then"

"ok, see you later mate!"

Its only us saddo's that go on and on about it.....

[The Ram]

Good post Stimacked (edit - and Ace)

Hope the rest of you have a look at the DET site and see that the player himself isn't bothered in the slightest.

Some burk tried to spin it that he's been forced to say that. How about it's the truth and he really isn't bothered - so you all just back off and stop drawing attention to the lad, and let him do as he asks and concentrate on improving his game and getting in the team?

With this squad I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities to have a go a Clough before the season is out, but this one is done to death and you're just hurting the player.

Fair enough, my opinion on the matter is not important as this is just a message board. I'm not anti-Clough btw BUT I am anti-derogatory comments from our Manager, and I thought the attack was disgraceful from him. At the ground I support 100% always have always will - I am though experienced in following DCFC and am currently not happy with the activities all round, especially The Yanks.

Whatever anyone writes on these boards does not affect performances on the pitch, that is down to the players and to Clough and his Coaching staff.

FINALLY! I understand that the thread has been done to death, but why do you think Radio Derby have an axe to grind?

[The Ram]

BTW Did the DET actually speak to Cwyka to get the quotes, or are they the ones taken from yesterdays Club Website statement? If they are a direct lift from the press release, then I doubt they really sum up how Cywka feels about the situation. There again that is just my humble opinion, and like you say we should move on, there will be plenty of other opportunities to pick up on the problems at our Club :frown:

[nookiebear]

i personally think radio derby have carried this on to sensationalise the story as at heart they are a radio station and always need news to report.

I think in general they dont always get behind the rams in the way they should and i think this is down to the fact that not many of them are actual derby fans (roger davies not inc there as i think he is the only one worth listening too)

like everyone its only my opionion but i have thought this for quite a while and this situation just proves it to me.

ps it also chuffs me off on the therams website the rolling pictures always seem to have billy chuffin davies celebrating

[CraigZ]

I don't agree with every word. I agree with some parts of it, but like with many aspects of my life, I am free to support the club that I love in the way that I want.

Yes I totally agree that the GSE are not taking the club forward in the way I had hoped and yes they are to blame for some of the problems the club faces.

I also was a very staunch blind loyalist to Nigel until the end of last season. I know we had a patch with a good series of results but I am not happy with the manner in which Nigel chooses to conduct himself. He has every right to speak about players in the manner in which he sees fit. He is the manager and he manages the team the way he likes.

I want the manager of the club I support to be able to act in ways that I find acceptable. I personally don't find the way he singles out players (whether it works or not) in public professional in the least. Some of you may disagree, but I am not sure why we ALL have to support Nigel, or we ALL have to want him out, or we ALL have to think the same way about anything that happens at Derby.

We are fans, we have our opinions, end of. This post itself just inflames the situation by actually making out to seem that those that found Nigel's comments the last straw, are in the wrong.

If you want the topic to close, you need to do it in a neutral manner, i.e. Clough said something, some people thought it was good, some thought it was bad and some didn't care. Lets move on. End of.

Instead it was turned into yet another post that is scattered with opinions and in which Derby fans have the right to agree or disagree with, in what ever manner they seem fit.

Completely agree.

[footymadme]

well said..............................................

So in the thread that asks people to stop being a bunch of moaning minnies and get behind the manager and the team, some of you just carry on acting like moaning minnies.

I can't believe the horseshit I've heard about this overblown Cwyka issue. These are professional sportsmen earning more per month than most fans earn in a year, not NHS clerical clerks. It's a pressure job, and goes with the territory.

Are you all going to start complaining about the way people are spoken to in the armed forces now - all those nasty wasty drill sergeants telling them 'orrible pieces of **** to gerra move on' when they're learning the ropes?

I understand some of you are just being kind natured (as well as those who are just looking to put the knife in Clough), but the footballers I know and have spoken to in the past couple of days just think all of this is a joke, wound up by people with an axe to grind (Radio Derby) who don't understand the game, or think sports management is the same as running an office or a shop floor.

As the thread says, let's drop it an move on. The real enemy is an under-funded squad and lack of confidence. We can't do much about getting players in, but we can do our bit by stopping squabbling and bitching about the manager.

well said pete...............

[footymadme]

radio derby

Fair enough, my opinion on the matter is not important as this is just a message board. I'm not anti-Clough btw BUT I am anti-derogatory comments from our Manager, and I thought the attack was disgraceful from him. At the ground I support 100% always have always will - I am though experienced in following DCFC and am currently not happy with the activities all round, especially The Yanks.

Whatever anyone writes on these boards does not affect performances on the pitch, that is down to the players and to Clough and his Coaching staff.

FINALLY! I understand that the thread has been done to death, but why do you think Radio Derby have an axe to grind?

radio derby have to take the attention off themselves being the worst

broadcasters around for miles...gibson and bloomfield are simply

not up to the job..........mistake after mistake..........

time after time reading teams // results out so fast you cannot take it in:mad:

[CraigZ]

Good post Stimacked (edit - and Ace)

Hope the rest of you have a look at the DET site and see that the player himself isn't bothered in the slightest.

Some burk tried to spin it that he's been forced to say that. How about it's the truth and he really isn't bothered - so you all just back off and stop drawing attention to the lad, and let him do as he asks and concentrate on improving his game and getting in the team?

With this squad I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities to have a go a Clough before the season is out, but this one is done to death and you're just hurting the player.

Pete, as one who (not unlike myself) regularly challenges posters for wearing blinkers, I fear you're falling into the same trap on this one. I've read the DET interview.

First off, Cywka is unlikely to state anything other than full support of his manager (just as we've both agreed many times that Clough is unlikely to state anything other than his full support of GSE). Granted, this isn't to say that it's not true either. But this quote in the article, from Gordon Taylor, is quite telling:

"I can understand the sense of frustration at losing a goal so late in a game and sometimes things are said that might be best unsaid."

Do you think Gordon Taylor is condoning Clough's behaviour here or politely condemning it within the context of 'we all make mistakes' (in a way that Nigel Clough might be well advised to learn from?).

As I wrote earlier on in another thread and as SilentRam has very articulately stated in this one, how Cywka reacted is only half the problem. There are certain standards of behaviour that any ambassador of a club should maintain - from the chairman down to the tea lady - and Nigel failed to do that in this case.