What’s the missing ingredient ?

[LazloW]

I think Will is going to be a great player and in an ideal world he would have stayed at Derby for his entire career, chalked up 1000 appearances for us while getting the 100 caps for England he has the talent to get... but...

Putting aside the injuries and the poor management, if Will had broken into the first team last season - which considering his age wouldn't have been that odd - then based on his performances overall if anybody had offered us somewhere between £4-£8m for him we'd have all been saying what a brilliant bit of business it was.   Lets be honest, he was nowhere near the standard that he had shown in previous seasons.  Now, there might be many reasons for that, some of which might have been outside his control and some, from what I've heard about his attitude (which I only pay moderate attention to) but he seemed to me at least to have stood still or gone a little backwards.

Football is a cut throat business and while we see the 17/18 year old Will who was going to be a superstar, other clubs see someone who has been injured for a season then followed that with a patchy one.  The risks of signing him therefore increase and the number of clubs willing to shell out big money goes down.  I couldn't believe that only Watford came in for him, but this inevitably means it becomes more of a buyers market and the price is never going to get above the absolute minimum we were willing to sell him for.

This wouldn't be an issue, of course, if we didn't want (or need) to sell.  We could have waited until demand increased and hoped he kicked on this year.  I know most people are probably more concerned with why we wanted to sell him in the first place than the fee.  For me, I just think the time had come.  He needs Premier League football to acheive what he should be achieving.  Funds were obviously needed to reshape the side/replenish the pot/change direction after profligate spending elsewhere and Will and Tom were our main saleable assets.  The lack of demand for Will kept his price down and obviously a decision was made that we needed the money, or we needed the space in the squad, or whatever more than we needed to keep him.  That's the way of football.  Players come and go.  We'll probably never know the full reasons or background.  Sometimes difficult and risky decisions come off and sometimes they don't.  I don't necessarily blame the club for letting him go.  I do blame football in general for not recognising 'a player' but if he needs a season or two with Watford to prove his worth then so be it.  It's a shame it isn't with us, but we couldn't  give him that and I think he deserves his chance.

We now just need the next Will to come through the ranks and all will be well!

[Spanish]

17 minutes ago, LazloW said:

I think Will is going to be a great player and in an ideal world he would have stayed at Derby for his entire career, chalked up 1000 appearances for us while getting the 100 caps for England he has the talent to get... but...

Putting aside the injuries and the poor management, if Will had broken into the first team last season - which considering his age wouldn't have been that odd - then based on his performances overall if anybody had offered us somewhere between £4-£8m for him we'd have all been saying what a brilliant bit of business it was.   Lets be honest, he was nowhere near the standard that he had shown in previous seasons.  Now, there might be many reasons for that, some of which might have been outside his control and some, from what I've heard about his attitude (which I only pay moderate attention to) but he seemed to me at least to have stood still or gone a little backwards.

Football is a cut throat business and while we see the 17/18 year old Will who was going to be a superstar, other clubs see someone who has been injured for a season then followed that with a patchy one.  The risks of signing him therefore increase and the number of clubs willing to shell out big money goes down.  I couldn't believe that only Watford came in for him, but this inevitably means it becomes more of a buyers market and the price is never going to get above the absolute minimum we were willing to sell him for.

This wouldn't be an issue, of course, if we didn't want (or need) to sell.  We could have waited until demand increased and hoped he kicked on this year.  I know most people are probably more concerned with why we wanted to sell him in the first place than the fee.  For me, I just think the time had come.  He needs Premier League football to acheive what he should be achieving.  Funds were obviously needed to reshape the side/replenish the pot/change direction after profligate spending elsewhere and Will and Tom were our main saleable assets.  The lack of demand for Will kept his price down and obviously a decision was made that we needed the money, or we needed the space in the squad, or whatever more than we needed to keep him.  That's the way of football.  Players come and go.  We'll probably never know the full reasons or background.  Sometimes difficult and risky decisions come off and sometimes they don't.  I don't necessarily blame the club for letting him go.  I do blame football in general for not recognising 'a player' but if he needs a season or two with Watford to prove his worth then so be it.  It's a shame it isn't with us, but we couldn't  give him that and I think he deserves his chance.

We now just need the next Will to come through the ranks and all will be well!

good post probably deserves to be in the Will's topic.  I still think the driver was Will's desire to play in the prem and who can blame him.  He wasn't playing well for us and his new contract may well have allowed him to move on for the fee decided upon.  A few things to remember, there was ample time to another club to outbid Watford but none did and it took Watford 3 months of training to get him to a level where they felt he was ready

[twinthe_12]

6 hours ago, Spanish said:

good post probably deserves to be in the Will's topic.  I still think the driver was Will's desire to play in the prem and who can blame him.  He wasn't playing well for us and his new contract may well have allowed him to move on for the fee decided upon.  A few things to remember, there was ample time to another club to outbid Watford but none did and it took Watford 3 months of training to get him to a level where they felt he was ready

 

[twinthe_12]

The missing ingredient ?

The whole problem is down to wrong kind of play and idea of how to play creative and direct play.

Right now with Huddlestone and Ledley we play long balls over the midfield players, because they haven't got a clue as how to play.

Look at all our few goals - most of them comes from a defender and then right to a striker who goes solo and scores.

We need to get rid of Huddlestone and Ledley and start playing Thorne ind the middle and play Weimann and Martin up front and Vydra behind them.

My team would be:

                       Carson

Baird       Keogh      Davies   Forsyth

                       Thorne

Lawrence                       Johnson

                         Vydra

             Weimann/Winnall      Martin

 

Why haven't Rowert tried Martin and Vydra together ?

 

I have lost faith in Gerry Rowert - We need at someone else who beleive in the young and upcoming players like Thomas, Bennett and Hanson too and start rebuilding the team around those players instead of the old ones we got right now..

[jagerbob]

1 hour ago, twinthe_12 said:

Why haven't Rowert tried Martin and Vydra together ?

 

 

jesus wept.

Did you ever see Ince play in the hole with martin vs with Bent.

Theres a reason he always looked better with bent, and why people thought he and Martin didnt get on.

Vydra is the same, he needs space to be effective.

Which means you need a number 9 threat in behind to stretch the defence.

Martin was good in a 4-3-3 with supporting running midfielders close to him.

I personally think Nugent and Vydra in the 4-2-3-1 is the best combination, especially given the defence solidity with two holding midfielders.

[68 Guns]

3 hours ago, twinthe_12 said:

Right now with Huddlestone and Ledley we play long balls over the midfield players, because they haven't got a clue as how to play.

Long passes, not long balls. Massive difference. Personally I have no problem with a long pass. It's about transiton of play. Get it forward whilst the opposition are out of shape. Always more likely to create a chance in that scenario. If we're lumping up to a 6ft 4in CF and trying to pick up 2nd phase then I have a problem. But we haven't, we don't and we won't. I fully expect the performances will get better as time goes on and GR further shapes his squad. In the meantime happy to pick up points and be in 6th. 

On the subject of GT it proves what a ridiculous situation players returning from injury are now in. Couple of years ago George would be off to Barnsley or Bolton or wherever on a months loan. Now he can't. Restraint of trade in my eyes.