RadioactiveWaste Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Theres an article on the guardian today about how good forests youth set up is. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Not sure why you're LOLing. Recently we've produced talents like, - Reid and Michael Dawson - Last years PL winning captain - Two young players in a Newcastle side who will probably be champions of the second division this year (including Lascelles the captain) - A youth player who has had comparisons to Gareth Bale made and was sold for 13m at 19 years old (not nearly enough) - Several others who have all made the step up into the Forest first team (Cash, Grant, Osborn, Iacovitti, Tyler Walker) Even Bamford made his mark for MBoro and yourselves. As far as producing our own talent we've had a fantastic line of players coming through our own academy, far better than Derby I would add. The article highlights that point. There cannot be many other clubs in England’s top two divisions, if any, with a better production line from youth level to first team – the pathway as it is known – over the same period and the conveyor belt of young talent is testament to the work of Gary Brazil, the head of academy, and his staff, among them the former Forest striker Jack Lester. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/sep/20/nottingam-forest-production-line-arsenal-efl-cup-brian-clough-anniversary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Don't get carried away dawnie. Youve had a good return over the last few years granted, but.....hummm....morgan Premier league champion......and the berk who went to germany.... Its not that its a bad or laughable effort in fact its one good thing at your end,but the article is a bit "gushing" if you catch my drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Don't get carried away dawnie. Youve had a good return over the last few years granted, but.....hummm....morgan Premier league champion......and the berk who went to germany.... Its not that its a bad or laughable effort in fact its one good thing at your end,but the article is a bit "gushing" if you catch my drift Its gushing for a reason, we've had a real return on our youth recently, not just from investments, but the youth teams doing well and winning games too. As for the two examples you made there, Morgan was in my opinion the best Centre-half in the championship for 2-3 years whilst with us, and an absolute travesty that he went for such pittance (nice one Cotterill). No surprise to anyone with a brain at Forest that he went on to do so well. No one really knows how far Oliver will go, but in my opinion he has every chance of playing at the highest level of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Don't get carried away dawnie. Youve had a good return over the last few years granted, but.....hummm....morgan Premier league champion......and the berk who went to germany.... Its not that its a bad or laughable effort in fact its one good thing at your end,but the article is a bit "gushing" if you catch my drift To be fair it was written by a forest fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Just now, rynny said: To be fair it was written by a forest fan. Hoping you'd not notice that fact.. He's not wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Red_Dawn said: Hoping you'd not notice that fact.. He's not wrong though He makes some good points but it is the bit that, even yourself highlighted, Quote There cannot be many other clubs in England’s top two divisions, if any, with a better production line from youth level to first team – the pathway as it is known – over the same period and the conveyor belt of young talent is testament to the work of Gary Brazil, the head of academy, and his staff, among them the former Forest striker Jack Lester. That made me laugh, especially with the list of players, it is like us trumpeting when Clough was in charge and he used Will Hughes, Jeff Hendrick, Mark O'Brien, Callum Ball, Mason Bennett, Ross Atkins, James Severn, Miles Addison, Ryan Connolly, Greg Mills, Arnaud Mendy and that was youth players used just between 2010 to 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 18 minutes ago, rynny said: He makes some good points but it is the bit that, even yourself highlighted, That made me laugh, especially with the list of players, it is like us trumpeting when Clough was in charge and he used Will Hughes, Jeff Hendrick, Mark O'Brien, Callum Ball, Mason Bennett, Ross Atkins, James Severn, Miles Addison, Ryan Connolly, Greg Mills, Arnaud Mendy and that was youth players used just between 2010 to 2012. Who out of those lot have done anything of note. One went for waaaaaay more than he is worth to a lower end PL team, and whilst the Albino undeniably has lots of talent, he is still stuck at a team languishing 20th in the championship. I'm amazed his agent hasn't pushed for him to move to a bigger club yet. Surely going somewhere like Hull or Middlesbrough would benefit his career??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Who out of those lot have done anything of note. One went for waaaaaay more than he is worth to a lower end PL team, and whilst the Albino undeniably has lots of talent, he is still stuck at a team languishing 20th in the championship. I'm amazed his agent hasn't pushed for him to move to a bigger club yet. Surely going somewhere like Hull or Middlesbrough would benefit his career??? Who out of the current lot that Daniel Taylor had done anything of note other than Burke being sold for waaaaaay more than he is worth? Sure Osborne has had a couple of decent games and a goal or 2, surely a move to Burnley or Sunderland would be beneficial to his career? What have the others have done exactly that our youth players hadn't done for us at that time? A few appearances here and there is all that has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Its not a whoes better competition Dawinie, I laughed because the article is a puff piece written by a fan as if a good academy is anovel idea only forest have and a good couple of crops make it something unique and wonderful and thats why forest is so special as if no other decent club's have this. I also remember,Brian Clough in one of books having a go at the whole achadamy edifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 36 minutes ago, rynny said: Who out of the current lot that Daniel Taylor had done anything of note other than Burke being sold for waaaaaay more than he is worth? Sure Osborne has had a couple of decent games and a goal or 2, surely a move to Burnley or Sunderland would be beneficial to his career? What have the others have done exactly that our youth players hadn't done for us at that time? A few appearances here and there is all that has happened. Burke was sold for LESS than he was worth, this kid was already leading goalscorer and assists in the championship when he was sold, and at 19 years old has years and years of development left in him. Hendricks is never going to get any betetr than he currently is, or at least very unlikely to get better. What have the others done? I've highlighted this above, with big Wes being the best example. What captain for a PL winning side have you developed? As for Osborn going to Sunderland, maybe he'll get a year in the PL so maybe you are right! Can't see us getting there any time soon so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 31 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: I also remember,Brian Clough in one of books having a go at the whole achadamy edifice. Im not sure what an achadamy edifice is, but as you often remind us, Sir Brian hasn't managed us for 23 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 As in the move by lots of clubs to have academy systems, the overall way the game was moving at the time, Clough thought young players should play is my recolection. Think it was in the walking on water book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Yep. And at our gaffe they do play. How many academy players had game time at your place this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Yep. And at our gaffe they do play. How many academy players had game time at your place this season? Hendrick, Hughes, Elsnik and Lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 34 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Burke was sold for LESS than he was worth, this kid was already leading goalscorer and assists in the championship when he was sold, and at 19 years old has years and years of development left in him. Hendricks is never going to get any betetr than he currently is, or at least very unlikely to get better. What have the others done? I've highlighted this above, with big Wes being the best example. What captain for a PL winning side have you developed? As for Osborn going to Sunderland, maybe he'll get a year in the PL so maybe you are right! Can't see us getting there any time soon so.. How can it be less? He has played 10 games. No player is worth more than 13 million after 10 games. seen him a few times and every time I have said exactly the same, if he had an ounce of a footballing brain he could be very good, even said that to half my Sunday team who support forest and each of them agreed. Well may be you should have a read of what I said, I was referring to the players in the article, and all of them bar Osborne have played about 8 games between them. You can't seriously mention players that were in you academy 12-15 years ago as a reason why your academy is good, what happened in between that time? McGugan and erm, well, erm, Cohen? Nope struggling for any other players in that 10 year void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 26 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Yep. And at our gaffe they do play. How many academy players had game time at your place this season? 19 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said: Hendrick, Hughes, Elsnik and Lowe Also had Hanson, Rawson, Mitchell and Grant as unused subs. In the last 4 seasons we have had 10, 10, 12, 10 players that have either played or been in the matchday squad from the academy. Not bad going for a team that has spent £80m in the last 3 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 There is also, of course, this "choice" to play youth, that is in no way related to, money or transfer realities. Sorry, but its not that forest are bad with their youth, its the notion that they are a unique and somehow special because they had a few good uns recently. Southampton, Swansea, West Brom are all good examples of good academies. Man U played loads of youth players last season, but whats more telling is the number of championship players who came out of the man u set up over recent years. But no, lets have a national newspaper gushing over it. Still, it is the guardian..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Red_Dawn said: - Several others who have all made the step up into the Forest first team (Cash, Grant, Osborn, Iacovitti, Tyler Walker) Even Bamford made his mark for MBoro and yourselves. As far as producing our own talent we've had a fantastic line of players coming through our own academy, far better than Derby I would add. The article highlights that point. And I'm sure if we were put under an embargo we'd also see a lot more academy players making their way into the first team. It's just a shame that Morris agreed to Clement's wishes and spent a huge chunk on players making it even harder for youngsters to get a chance. Thankfully, it's already looking like that's changing under Pearson and we seem to have a few youngsters who could come good. Pearson sold 2 experienced centre backs and didn't sign replacements so Rawson who did very well at Rotherham is now closer to the first team. He bizarrely loaned out Grant to Stoke but that puts Mitchell as our backup goalkeeper and he's highly rated. Forsyth picked up an injury likely to keep him out for the season and he didn't sign another left back so Lowe who has done well when given the chance for Derby and England's youth is now the 2nd choice left back. Elsnik is very, very highly rated and has been getting a few chances here and there. And then of course we've still got Hughes here, probably only because teams didn't want to spend so much on someone just returning from a bad injury. So whilst we've not got quite as many coming through as you have, I'd be quite confident in saying Hendrick, Hughes, Elsnik and Rawson if/when sold, would sell for more than Burke and those you mentioned combined. Quality over quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 15 hours ago, Cam the Ram said: So whilst we've not got quite as many coming through as you have, I'd be quite confident in saying Hendrick, Hughes, Elsnik and Rawson if/when sold, would sell for more than Burke and those you mentioned combined. Quality over quantity. Aaaaand I'm quitely confident Burke (already 13-17m), Osborn, Tyler Walker, Grant, Cash, Ahmedhodzic and the rest would sell more than those lot.. But I'm hoping we actually keep hold of a few of these, rather than just selling for the first derisory offer on any good player we get. Not much chance of that mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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