Day Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 My point is...they are pretty much always a good side, the players may change but as a nation they have that winning mentality. Club football and international football are different beasts. This Italy team are a good side regardless of it's history, no shame in losing to them. Sounds like scraping the barrel for excuses when it's really not needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsy1884 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 This Italy team are a good side regardless of it's history, no shame in losing to them. Sounds like scraping the barrel for excuses when it's really not needed Italy are very often there or there abouts in tourneys except maybe WC 2010 but they beat us with tactics last night. I think the defeat sits solely at Roys door. To leave our left so exposed for pretty much the entire game was frustrating to say the least. Milner should have been brought on to sure up that side. Wilshire is a waste of space and Lambert should have been given a go. The substitutions were just wrong in my opinion. That is what cost us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Italy are very often there or there abouts in tourneys except maybe WC 2010 This doesn't matter. It's all history, were Greece always there or there abouts before they won the Euro's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsy1884 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 This doesn't matter. It's all history, were Greece always there or there abouts before they won the Euro's? Thats probably a bit extreme but what I was trying to say that Italy generally have a good team whatever the tournament whether past or present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Thats probably a bit extreme but what I was trying to say that Italy generally have a good team whatever the tournament whether past or present. But you're bringing history, just talk about the present Italy team as that's who we played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I don't think it works tactically to have two centre forwards playing wide midfield. I think Woy has got it wong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I can't believe I am reading that Italy are not a good a side? Yeah, let's slag off the 4 time winners. Yeah because it is the same side right. What absolute rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Yeah because it is the same side right. What absolute rubbish. Think Italy are pretty decent to be fair.... Think they will go a decent way this time in this tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Think Italy are pretty decent to be fair.... Think they will go a decent way this time in this tournament. Let's see what happens in the group games up against teams that pressure them on the ball. That put in tackles. That have a midfielder playing left midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Let's see what happens in the group games up against teams that pressure them on the ball. That put in tackles. That have a midfielder playing left midfield. Think they will pick teams off, don't think I've ever seen Pirlo flustered.... Just think they've got a good work ethic and are very disciplined, especially at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Think they will pick teams off, don't think I've ever seen Pirlo flustered.... Just think they've got a good work ethic and are very disciplined, especially at the back. It is not difficult to see what he does. His passes are either short and simple playing in triangles. Passing the ball between the lines of formation or over the top playing the striker in from behind. He doesn't ask for the ball unless he has an outlet. He is not a linear footballer. He always thinks a few steps ahead at a time. As intelligent people do. Unfortunately footballers are not very intelligent so that gulf is very big. Italy's shape, discipline, positioning orbits Pirlo. With Pirlo it isn't about pressing. It is about pressing and anticipating his outlet. 1 second too long on the ball for someone like Pirlo when he is being pressed and his outlet is covered put's him in a vulnerable position in which he can not recover due to his age, fitness, athleticism and general approach/style of play. When he is not one move ahead of you his advantage is gone. He is no longer world class. He is a weak point. If we look back at the chances, Italy were not disciplined at the back. They were incredibly lucky. Another ref and we could have been awarded two penalties. If we took our chances we could have embarrassed them in terms of scoreline. They however did take their chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 It is not difficult to see what he does. His passes are either short and simple playing in triangles. Passing the ball between the lines of formation or over the top playing the striker in from behind. He doesn't ask for the ball unless he has an outlet. He is not a linear footballer. He always thinks a few steps ahead at a time. As intelligent people do. Unfortunately footballers are not very intelligent so that gulf is very big. Italy's shape, discipline, positioning orbits Pirlo. With Pirlo it isn't about pressing. It is about pressing and anticipating his outlet. 1 second too long on the ball for someone like Pirlo when he is being pressed and his outlet is covered put's him in a vulnerable position in which he can not recover due to his age, fitness, athleticism and general approach/style of play. When he is not one move ahead of you his advantage is gone. He is no longer world class. He is a weak point. If we look back at the chances, Italy were not disciplined at the back. They were incredibly lucky. Another ref and we could have been awarded two penalties. If we took our chances we could have embarrassed them in terms of scoreline. They however did take their chances. One thing I agree with you totally is the intelligence gulf between our nation and some of the more successful ones. Hopefully that gets addressed over the next few years. I do think the future is bright for England, especially moving forward with St George's Park. Hopefully you will see a very good English side within the next 10 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 It is not difficult to see what he does. His passes are either short and simple playing in triangles. Passing the ball between the lines of formation or over the top playing the striker in from behind. He doesn't ask for the ball unless he has an outlet. He is not a linear footballer. He always thinks a few steps ahead at a time. As intelligent people do. Unfortunately footballers are not very intelligent so that gulf is very big. Italy's shape, discipline, positioning orbits Pirlo. With Pirlo it isn't about pressing. It is about pressing and anticipating his outlet. 1 second too long on the ball for someone like Pirlo when he is being pressed and his outlet is covered put's him in a vulnerable position in which he can not recover due to his age, fitness, athleticism and general approach/style of play. When he is not one move ahead of you his advantage is gone. He is no longer world class. He is a weak point. If we look back at the chances, Italy were not disciplined at the back. They were incredibly lucky. Another ref and we could have been awarded two penalties. If we took our chances we could have embarrassed them in terms of scoreline. They however did take their chances. I think you're seriosuly doing Pirlo a disservice here. His movement is excellent, and he does look for the ball - just not by throwing his hands up and shouting, he constantly moves into space and drops off. It's difficult to press a team constantly, and especially one which moves around so intelligently. Stopping Pirlo from receiving the ball is as difficult as getting the ball off him when he has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I think you're seriosuly doing Pirlo a disservice here. His movement is excellent, and he does look for the ball - just not by throwing his hands up and shouting, he constantly moves into space and drops off. It's difficult to press a team constantly, and especially one which moves around so intelligently. Stopping Pirlo from receiving the ball is as difficult as getting the ball off him when he has it. Am I? For highlighting his strengths and weaknesses.I am a fan of intelligent players who do not rely on athleticism but intelligence. Those who have both are world class. Unplayable. But with Pirlo you stop him from doing what he does there isn't anywhere for him to go to. I didn't say try and stop Pirlo from getting the ball. We have seen the difference between playing George Thorne vs Eustace. Thorne makes himself available every time he is near the ball or has just passed it. He never stands behind an opposition player. Always on his feet. Importantly he doesn't just make himself available. He makes himself available while the position he takes up allows him to make that next pass. Play one touch football. Thinking more than one step at a time. This is basic football training and approach play. But most players don't do it because they have a linear approach, because they are selfish and lazy. Pirlo does the same (as Thorne). You don't have to bust a gut. But you expect the same from your team mates, especially if it is to have an effect. To constantly press a team is difficult. I didn't say that. A composed calm team would simply utilize the width and the extra man (goalkeeper). But when in the middle you have to press. This is where there is less room. Where you make sure that pass is not forward in between the lines of formation. Where a slightly loose pass can be picked up by either team and can certainly be snatched off the toes of an older player a less fit player. In the second half after Barkley and Whilshire came on England were caught in two minds. We would see two players press high in the middle but apply no pressure leaving time and space for Italy to make that pass into the middle behind them. Where England's players should be. The center circle is a clear marker for high tempo pressing (In and around the center circle) and an area for trying to win the ball back. The reason for which is the 360 degree nature of the area. The range in which the ball can be played. Because if you don't apply pressure here, the ball can go anywhere and passes will cut you apart. We didn't see Gerrard or Henderson try to win the ball here much. Reading back your response. It didn't appear as though you even read what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JW- Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Embarrassing commentary from Jonathan Pearce. Doesn't understand this goal line technology does he? Go back to robot wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abertawe_ram Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Embarrassing commentary from Jonathan Pearce. Doesn't understand this goal line technology does he? Go back to robot wars. I THINK HE JUST LOVES TO MAKE EVERYTHING SOUND AS DRAMATIC AS POSSIBLE! EVEN WHEN IT REALLY ISN'T NECESSARY!! OOOOOOHHHHH MY GOOODNESSS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 The more I watch England's goal, surely it has got to be up there for goal of the tournament so far.IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JW- Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Van Persie's goal is the best for me so far. Followed by Robben, then Sturridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Van Persie's goal is the best for me so far. Followed by Robben, then Sturridge. England's maybe more of a team goal, three players involved ,,its on opinions, and can not fault your picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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