Lets be honest here .......

[curb]

.

Who's that then? Sammon? Did you see him on Saturday?

 

Honestly, booing a player in his first season with the club is absolutely pathetic. People can keep doing it if they want, but if they think it'll improve the team's performance they're sadly mistaken, and actively contributing to poor performance is a pretty braindead thing to do when you've shelled out £x00 on a season ticket.

 

Still, each to their own.

 

So basically you're saying it's not really affected him then?

 

Maybe he's not as precious as you lot

[WilkoRam]

He heads the ball, controls well and his hold up play is second to none. He can get the ball and run with it. If he could improve his finishing (confidence) he really would be a very good player and well worth the money we paid.

 

The balls up to him he often jumps under. Not saying it's always his fault and often down to poor distribution. He does not control it that well, it will often be lost with a poor first touch, possibly a confidence issue. His hold up play is 2nd to a lot in my opinion. He is not a great target man for us. I remember someone coming in here who was a fan if a team in the SPL and they stated in the season he did well up there is was due to the ball being played into his feet rather than expecting him to be a target man. Perhaps he'd benefit from not doing a role that he isn't as good at. But then with our style we need a target man to put the ball up to after the sideways passes across the back four don't go anyway. On that last point, I have no issue with passing it across the back as long as a forward pass happens at some point and the midfield are making space for the ball.

[RampantRam]

The balls up to him he often jumps under. Not saying it's always his fault and often down to poor distribution. He does not control it that well, it will often be lost with a poor first touch, possibly a confidence issue. His hold up play is 2nd to a lot in my opinion. He is not a great target man for us. I remember someone coming in here who was a fan if a team in the SPL and they stated in the season he did well up there is was due to the ball being played into his feet rather than expecting him to be a target man. Perhaps he'd benefit from not doing a role that he isn't as good at. But then with our style we need a target man to put the ball up to after the sideways passes across the back four don't go anyway. On that last point, I have no issue with passing it across the back as long as a forward pass happens at some point and the midfield are making space for the ball.

I think you're spot on WilkoRam. I think it speaks volumes though when you compare Sammon's hold up play against Martin's. Martin is a good few inches shorter than Sammon but looks a bigger aerial threat. He's shown strength in his play and tries to bring midfielders into the attack.

 

A perfect example of this kind of play was the goal at Peterborough. Did well to bring it down, strength to hold off two defenders and a great finish. Sammon just hasn't had that kind of killer instinct this season. So as a side note, I hope we sign Martin this summer.  

[Asanovic]

.

 

So basically you're saying it's not really affected him then?

 

Maybe he's not as precious as you lot

Course he's been affected. Imagine people in your place of work criticising your every move, wishing you weren't there and giving you no praise whatsoever when you do something well.

 

It took courage to step up to those penalties after the absolute bile thrown at him - that he missed them to me is a sign of the confidence being drained from him. But he's coming back, and he's shown that in his last few performances.

 

People see different things with their own eyes, but to me the notion that Sammon is a useless waste of space is about 8 weeks out of date.

 

Amazing that players like Mikkel Beck weren't booed, yet Sammon is. If this is as bad as you've seen, you're a lucky soul.

[ramblur]

The balls up to him he often jumps under. Not saying it's always his fault and often down to poor distribution. He does not control it that well, it will often be lost with a poor first touch, possibly a confidence issue. His hold up play is 2nd to a lot in my opinion. He is not a great target man for us. I remember someone coming in here who was a fan if a team in the SPL and they stated in the season he did well up there is was due to the ball being played into his feet rather than expecting him to be a target man. Perhaps he'd benefit from not doing a role that he isn't as good at. But then with our style we need a target man to put the ball up to after the sideways passes across the back four don't go anyway. On that last point, I have no issue with passing it across the back as long as a forward pass happens at some point and the midfield are making space for the ball.

I thought the idea of a target was that you were supposed to hit it.Perhaps those who constantly miss the target are more to blame.

[WilkoRam]

I thought the idea of a target was that you were supposed to hit it.Perhaps those who constantly miss the target are more to blame.

Yep so all the players pumping the ball up to him are poor rather than him not judging the flight of the ball properly. It makes sense that its not the one person who is at fault but the many.

Here's a radical idea though, maybe we try and not play the target man card. I know this flys in the face of the English football mentality but maybe try to keep the ball on the floor and carve out some chances. After all "If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."

[North_Stand_Ram]

Its not all about massive goalscoring strikers. Hulls top scorer has 8 and Cardiffs 9. Its about putting it in the net!

[needles]

You have no way of knowing that. That's impossibly to judge. Nigel didn't have that money, we have no way of knowing who he would have signed and where we would have been.

 

 

Only to the same extent that you've got no way of knowing we won't be promoted next season.

[WilkoRam]

I've never purported it as fact. Merely that I don't think we will under Nigel and nothing that has happened under his reign makes me think any different.

It's the shouts that if he had money we WOULD be challenging for promotion and that he WILL get us promoted that bug me, like its an indisputable fact. It's impossible to say. I can't say he won't get us promoted or that he wouldn't sign some amazing players should he have £3m or whatever just that I don't think he will.

[Mostyn6]

if being fair, you'd say 1 in 3 Clough signings are good, 1 in 3 are average and 1 in 3 are Poor.

 

So, as we're signing 6 players, we're gonna get 2 good players (up there with Brayford and Ward)

 

We're gonna get 2 average players (Ben Davies, and Connor Sammon standard), probably Martin and Forsyth are these.

 

and 2 poor players (Maguire or Croft...wont play)

 

Is that enough to be added to the squad to make a push for promotion or play-offs?

[curb]

Course he's been affected. Imagine people in your place of work criticising your every move, wishing you weren't there and giving you no praise whatsoever when you do something well.

 

It took courage to step up to those penalties after the absolute bile thrown at him - that he missed them to me is a sign of the confidence being drained from him. But he's coming back, and he's shown that in his last few performances.

 

People see different things with their own eyes, but to me the notion that Sammon is a useless waste of space is about 8 weeks out of date.

 

Amazing that players like Mikkel Beck weren't booed, yet Sammon is. If this is as bad as you've seen, you're a lucky soul.

I can't imagine what it would be like, and because I know I wouldn't be able to handle it well I've never put myself in the public eye (not that I was ever likely to have the chance), but Sammon has, and he gets very well rewarded for doing a job millions would give their right arm for. Im not saying its right, however, just that I understand people's frustrations boiling over.

You're right, he showed a lot of bottle to carry on and step up to take the penalty, but it doesn't make him a better player.

'People see different things with their own eyes, but to me the notion that Sammon is a useless waste of space is about 8 weeks out of date.'

I'm not sure what you're saying there, is it fashionable now to ignore all his faults because he chases down defenders, or has he suddenly learnt how to control, pass, shoot and head the ball in the last '8 weeks' (and TBF we were discussing the booing which happened when he was still 'a useless waste of space').

This is nowhere near as bad as I've seen, thanks, I can name plenty (Preston h 1-4 in the cup was probably my all time low, although relegation to div 3 was pretty horrific, but not so fresh in my beer addled memory).

[notts_ram]

if being fair, you'd say 1 in 3 Clough signings are good, 1 in 3 are average and 1 in 3 are Poor.

 

So, as we're signing 6 players, we're gonna get 2 good players (up there with Brayford and Ward)

 

We're gonna get 2 average players (Ben Davies, and Connor Sammon standard), probably Martin and Forsyth are these.

 

and 2 poor players (Maguire or Croft...wont play)

 

Is that enough to be added to the squad to make a push for promotion or play-offs?

We need quality, not quantity, players that will enhance the current first team not add to the overall squad numbers. No chance.

[ramblur]

Yep so all the players pumping the ball up to him are poor rather than him not judging the flight of the ball properly. It makes sense that its not the one person who is at fault but the many.

Here's a radical idea though, maybe we try and not play the target man card. I know this flys in the face of the English football mentality but maybe try to keep the ball on the floor and carve out some chances. After all "If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."

I can't attend,so (apart from games I've actually seen) I'll have to rely on you attendees to tell me if he's misjudging the flight of the ball,or if it's often more  a case of a misdirected punt.I suspect that those who dislike Sammon will go for the former.In fact I've noticed a poster pointing out that 'fans' around him/her were giving him hell for failing to latch on to things that were nigh impossible.

 

There's nothing to stop you hitting a target man with balls on the deck-playing such way doesn't make the target man redundant,indeed it appears Sammon did well on this kind of service in Scotland.I've no doubt this "radical idea" is an intended dig at Clough.It always amuses me when people say that Clough resorts to hoofball at times during a game.Maybe it's just the players and is often due to the lack of experience in our team,which Clough has alluded to recently.I've heard many a top manager point out that once the team cross that white line there's little a manager can do about it,apart from substitutions and attempting to get a message accross over the noise of a crowd (admittedly perhaps not as big an issue with us).Has anyone heard Clough yell out "hoof it" during a game,after a spell of passing football? (and I'm not talking about an instruction to play it into the corners when protecting a result in the last few minutes)

[needles]

I've never purported it as fact. Merely that I don't think we will under Nigel and nothing that has happened under his reign makes me think any different.

It's the shouts that if he had money we WOULD be challenging for promotion and that he WILL get us promoted that bug me, like its an indisputable fact. It's impossible to say. I can't say he won't get us promoted or that he wouldn't sign some amazing players should he have £3m or whatever just that I don't think he will.

 

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but it seesm self evident to me that he's got what it takes. I will enjoy giving a round of told you so's next year (as long as Sam keeps his end of the bargain.

[Mostyn6]

I can't attend,so (apart from games I've actually seen) I'll have to rely on you attendees to tell me if he's misjudging the flight of the ball,or if it's often more  a case of a misdirected punt.I suspect that those who dislike Sammon will go for the former.In fact I've noticed a poster pointing out that 'fans' around him/her were giving him hell for failing to latch on to things that were nigh impossible.

 

There's nothing to stop you hitting a target man with balls on the deck-playing such way doesn't make the target man redundant,indeed it appears Sammon did well on this kind of service in Scotland.I've no doubt this "radical idea" is an intended dig at Clough.It always amuses me when people say that Clough resorts to hoofball at times during a game.Maybe it's just the players and is often due to the lack of experience in our team,which Clough has alluded to recently.I've heard many a top manager point out that once the team cross that white line there's little a manager can do about it,apart from substitutions and attempting to get a message accross over the noise of a crowd (admittedly perhaps not as big an issue with us).Has anyone heard Clough yell out "hoof it" during a game,after a spell of passing football? (and I'm not talking about an instruction to play it into the corners when protecting a result in the last few minutes)

 

 

Much of his criticism was because he fails to control ear high balls hoofed up by Keogh. In the same way Hulse used to struggle and S Davies too. He doesn't too bad when the ball played in is to his feet.

[WilkoRam]

I can't attend,so (apart from games I've actually seen) I'll have to rely on you attendees to tell me if he's misjudging the flight of the ball,or if it's often more a case of a misdirected punt.I suspect that those who dislike Sammon will go for the former.In fact I've noticed a poster pointing out that 'fans' around him/her were giving him hell for failing to latch on to things that were nigh impossible.

There's nothing to stop you hitting a target man with balls on the deck-playing such way doesn't make the target man redundant,indeed it appears Sammon did well on this kind of service in Scotland.I've no doubt this "radical idea" is an intended dig at Clough.It always amuses me when people say that Clough resorts to hoofball at times during a game.Maybe it's just the players and is often due to the lack of experience in our team,which Clough has alluded to recently.I've heard many a top manager point out that once the team cross that white line there's little a manager can do about it,apart from substitutions and attempting to get a message accross over the noise of a crowd (admittedly perhaps not as big an issue with us).Has anyone heard Clough yell out "hoof it" during a game,after a spell of passing football? (and I'm not talking about an instruction to play it into the corners when protecting a result in the last few minutes)

In my first post about this I said it was a mixture of the two, both the poor punt and Sammon jumping under it/misjudging it. I don't expect him to get every ball or think its his fault that he doesn't get half of them because they are lazy lofted balls up top so he'd be hard pushed to get half the ones he misses but he's at fault for the other half I would say. Also pointed out that apparently he's better with the ball played to feet yet in the games I've seen, I've seen little attempt to do this - maybe I'm just a jinx and should never go to a football match (Burnley at Home, Watford away, Ipswich at home to name three off the top of my head).

Also it wasn't a dig at Clough more of the English football in general. Other countries such as Italy refer to players like Carroll as a typical English forward because over the years that's the type of player that has become associated with English football. The big man, you puts it about and is a nice outlet for the rest of the team when we become too scared to try and pass it through the midfield. I don't blame Clough for the general attitude in the English game, honestly.

[WilkoRam]

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but it seesm self evident to me that he's got what it takes. I will enjoy giving a round of told you so's next year (as long as Sam keeps his end of the bargain.

I sincerely hope you get to do that. I will happily take it

[top 6 finish]

So Sammon is brilliant its us that can't see it plus the fact that he gets bad service.So its our midfields

fault,so we sell em all then.I nthe last 8 weeks he has improved no end and made his huge fee worth it.

Can someone remind me how many goals he scored in the last 8 weeks.Also can you really blame 2

penalty misses out of 2 on bad service?He looked full of confidence to me,just can't shoot straight.I

think we will accept the first offer in the summer.

[RodleyRam]

YAY another Sammon thread, we've been lacking one of those

[ramblur]

My thanks to the two who,rather than attacking what I'd said,filled me in with analysis given as attendees,which I'd requested as an (unfortunate) non attendee.Thank you.

 

As far as top 6's post goes,I never said that Sammon was brilliant,nor did I imply that everything was the fault of the midfield.

 

Brian always wanted to play to players' strengths,he wasn't interested in their apparent weaknesses.Thus he plucked Hinton from obscurity,and couldn't care less that he wasn't a tackler.Similarly,he wasn't worried about John O'Hare's lack of pace,but saw his ability to bring a ball down and feed his mates (not however balls lamped high over him or way to one side) and his (unfussy) finishing ability.You could go on to Ron Webster-one of the best defensive full backs I've seen,but a little lost when passing halfway.Did Clough worry about this? No ,that was someone else's job.

 

What's the point of this?Sammon seems stronger on the deck than in the air so we should perhaps be aiming to play to this strength more often.Now I can hear many saying his touch is terrible-very often this can be affected by a lack of confidence,so I'll reserve judgement on that one.