Gary Teale Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Wouldn't call Jutkiewicz cheap! Isnt it pretty much the same supposed fees for Baker, Shackell or Keogh. They did bring some money in though with the sales of Lita 1.7, Digard 700k and Boyd 1.7m. This summer they sold Bennett for big money around 2.5 million but mostly signed frees and paid a bit of money from a lad from Doncaster and one from Bristol Rovers. They have spent a lot less then they have brought in and are reducing there wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Isnt it pretty much the same supposed fees for Baker, Shackell or Keogh. They did bring some money in though with the sales of Lita 1.7, Digard 700k and Boyd 1.7m. This summer they sold Bennett for big money around 2.5 million but mostly signed frees and paid a bit of money from a lad from Doncaster and one from Bristol Rovers. They have spent a lot less then they have brought in and are reducing there wage bill. Agree they're reducing their wage bill,but their Academy was way ahead of our own (as were others).When Clough first started there weren't any ready to bring through and this has only started to happen relatively recently.For those who mention Watford,if they were able to bring youngsters through and achieve a reasonable league position,it shows they had youngsters ready to step up (which meant they didn't need to spend). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 You can...but only you. Cheers, Dick 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Exactly the boards checklist will have been in this order: 1. Stay in the championship 2. Lower the wage bill 3. Reduce the squad size 4. Develop a top quality academy 5. Get promoted Spot the missing item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodys woman Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Improve the match day experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Lower the fan's expectations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Spot the missing item. Spin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ram Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 "Clough has delivered on all fronts" I would love to see Clough achieve great things here at Derby but in my humble opinion I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime! Academy - a success. Signings - some good, some average, some poor Reduction of Wage Bill - A success....but I don't suppose thats what Nigel wants to do....how do you attract the better players with poor salaries. I ask, would you move from your job to a more 'fashionable' company and take a pay cut to do it? Man management - Tyson, Bailey, Croft, Cywka, Leacock, Varney, Maguire etc etc.......you decide! League Position - virtually the same as when he took over, four years ago. Ambition - I'm sure Nigel has ambition but I think I have more ambition than he does. I genuinely believe we can succeed and I'm not happy with mid-table, I'm not happy with a play off spot.....the only position that matters is top spot. Entertainment Value - In all honesty, 75% of the time I'm bored stiff. We go a goal up and decide to defend. Recently, we were three up against 'Boro then decide to defend. If your winning 3-0 why change tactics when you are doing all the right things....result we give a goal away instead of going on to score another. One man up front..not for me, enough said... "Clough has delivered on all fronts" - to sum up, not in my eyes. He's reduced the wage bill and assisted in setting up a good academy. We've not improved our league position, I'm now watching some of the most negative tactics I've seen in 40 odd years and the atmosphere has gone down the pan at Pride Park. There is an attitude of total apathy and the attendances are suffering because of it. I await the firing squad!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Isnt it pretty much the same supposed fees for Baker, Shackell or Keogh. They did bring some money in though with the sales of Lita 1.7, Digard 700k and Boyd 1.7m. This summer they sold Bennett for big money around 2.5 million but mostly signed frees and paid a bit of money from a lad from Doncaster and one from Bristol Rovers. They have spent a lot less then they have brought in and are reducing there wage bill. Having just had a look at Boro's accounts for 10/11 (which was an 18 month period due to an alteration to the year end date,so bear that in mind) player additions came in at £13.708m.This period coincides with part of Nigel's reign,so makes for an interesting comparison.In the same period they made a profit on player sales of £15m,having made profits of £17m on sales the year before. The directors' report would seem to back up the subsequent sales you mentioned.Whilst recent signings may have been rather more modest,one might expect that given the earlier £13.7m spend. All in all,hardly a fair comparison with what Clough has had to play with over an equivalent period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 "Clough has delivered on all fronts" I would love to see Clough achieve great things here at Derby but in my humble opinion I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime! Academy - a success. Signings - some good, some average, some poor Reduction of Wage Bill - A success....but I don't suppose thats what Nigel wants to do....how do you attract the better players with poor salaries. I ask, would you move from your job to a more 'fashionable' company and take a pay cut to do it? Man management - Tyson, Bailey, Croft, Cywka, Leacock, Varney, Maguire etc etc.......you decide! League Position - virtually the same as when he took over, four years ago. Ambition - I'm sure Nigel has ambition but I think I have more ambition than he does. I genuinely believe we can succeed and I'm not happy with mid-table, I'm not happy with a play off spot.....the only position that matters is top spot. Entertainment Value - In all honesty, 75% of the time I'm bored stiff. We go a goal up and decide to defend. Recently, we were three up against 'Boro then decide to defend. If your winning 3-0 why change tactics when you are doing all the right things....result we give a goal away instead of going on to score another. One man up front..not for me, enough said... "Clough has delivered on all fronts" - to sum up, not in my eyes. He's reduced the wage bill and assisted in setting up a good academy. We've not improved our league position, I'm now watching some of the most negative tactics I've seen in 40 odd years and the atmosphere has gone down the pan at Pride Park. There is an attitude of total apathy and the attendances are suffering because of it. I await the firing squad!! Do you think the current squad is capable of top spot? If not,given that you've already said that we can't attract better players with our wage structure,what exactly do you expect Nigel to do about it? Buy a lottery ticket in the name of DCFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ram Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Do you think the current squad is capable of top spot? If not,given that you've already said that we can't attract better players with our wage structure,what exactly do you expect Nigel to do about it? Buy a lottery ticket in the name of DCFC? On occasions we do play some good football, I'd just like to have more belief in ourselves...we can be good enough, just play with a more positive attitude. Southampton have been mentioned as an example in this thread....well at the start of last season we matched them, winning the first four matches. They pushed on and got promoted on the back of a good start, whereas we sat back and finished mid table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 On occasions we do play some good football, I'd just like to have more belief in ourselves...we can be good enough, just play with a more positive attitude. Southampton have been mentioned as an example in this thread....well at the start of last season we matched them, winning the first four matches. They pushed on and got promoted on the back of a good start, whereas we sat back and finished mid table. I think the brutally honest fact is that they had a far better team,rather than it being a case of our sitting back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 "Clough has delivered on all fronts" I would love to see Clough achieve great things here at Derby but in my humble opinion I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime! Academy - a success. Signings - some good, some average, some poor Reduction of Wage Bill - A success....but I don't suppose thats what Nigel wants to do....how do you attract the better players with poor salaries. I ask, would you move from your job to a more 'fashionable' company and take a pay cut to do it? Man management - Tyson, Bailey, Croft, Cywka, Leacock, Varney, Maguire etc etc.......you decide! League Position - virtually the same as when he took over, four years ago. Ambition - I'm sure Nigel has ambition but I think I have more ambition than he does. I genuinely believe we can succeed and I'm not happy with mid-table, I'm not happy with a play off spot.....the only position that matters is top spot. Entertainment Value - In all honesty, 75% of the time I'm bored stiff. We go a goal up and decide to defend. Recently, we were three up against 'Boro then decide to defend. If your winning 3-0 why change tactics when you are doing all the right things....result we give a goal away instead of going on to score another. One man up front..not for me, enough said... "Clough has delivered on all fronts" - to sum up, not in my eyes. He's reduced the wage bill and assisted in setting up a good academy. We've not improved our league position, I'm now watching some of the most negative tactics I've seen in 40 odd years and the atmosphere has gone down the pan at Pride Park. There is an attitude of total apathy and the attendances are suffering because of it. I await the firing squad!! 12 months ago you may well have been raite..not seen a negative match at PP this season though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Having just had a look at Boro's accounts for 10/11 (which was an 18 month period due to an alteration to the year end date,so bear that in mind) player additions came in at £13.708m.This period coincides with part of Nigel's reign,so makes for an interesting comparison.In the same period they made a profit on player sales of £15m,having made profits of £17m on sales the year before. The directors' report would seem to back up the subsequent sales you mentioned.Whilst recent signings may have been rather more modest,one might expect that given the earlier £13.7m spend. All in all,hardly a fair comparison with what Clough has had to play with over an equivalent period. Well I had clearly not look at the accounts just of the top of my head 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> . So which clubs have had to deal with what clough has so we can actually make a fair comparrison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well I had clearly not look at the accounts just of the top of my head 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> . So which clubs have had to deal with what clough has so we can actually make a fair comparrison? You tell me! Here's a checklist for candidates:- Inherit a struggling team. Inherit an Academy with no players ready for first team introduction. Change a whole squad over a period of 4 years to slash a wage bill,with the consequent turmoil of an ever changing team (more than a couple a season). Not only keep the club in the division,but achieve mid table. Do this on a very modest transfer budget,buying players mostly from lower leagues/non league/Scotland. If anyone can come up with such a club,then please tell me the accurate players' wages budgets of such club and ourselves (Ditto for transfer spend on players -no transfer internet sites). Good luck. Oh,and I forgot,deal at times with an injury list way above the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Are there more teams above us in the table, that have utilised less resources than us,than there are teams below us that have used more? If the answer is no,then those who think Clough's doing a bad job must have a pretty poor opinion of some other managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Clough is a victim of the board saying last year we'd be making a push for the top six. The words never left his mouth. He hasn't delivered on that front, but then he never said he would. We play better football, have a better team, have better youth prospects, have a lower wage bill, and stand a greater chance of the top six than we did before he got here. Some of that is fact, some IMO. On another thread there was talk of how farcical the situations at Wolves and Blackburn are - it makes me feel good that we have a bit of stability with half a chance this season (again, IMO) of the top six, and a pretty good chance next season if we continue to develop young talent and buy well in the Summer. He's made mistakes, but don't forget he was new to this - he was feeling his way round. He will manage in the Premiership - and I think it will be with Derby. Good job youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 You tell me! Here's a checklist for candidates:- Inherit a struggling team. Inherit an Academy with no players ready for first team introduction. Change a whole squad over a period of 4 years to slash a wage bill,with the consequent turmoil of an ever changing team (more than a couple a season). Not only keep the club in the division,but achieve mid table. Do this on a very modest transfer budget,buying players mostly from lower leagues/non league/Scotland. If anyone can come up with such a club,then please tell me the accurate players' wages budgets of such club and ourselves (Ditto for transfer spend on players -no transfer internet sites). Good luck. Oh,and I forgot,deal at times with an injury list way above the norm. Ill never understand why people ask this, are you saying that no other club is like Derby, or that no other manager could have achevied what Clough has done ? To ask for accurate players wages etc....is this so you can then go through and pick out things that arent true ? Have any other club invested within the youth system like derby have, do teams like Milwall and Charlton have a offering like Derby do away from the wage budget, for example Man City could have offered RVP more money but he chose to go to Utd because of other factors. Has any other team allowed their manager 4 years to build a team ? You could argue for ever about the circumstances that any manager has to manage in, are Palace on a lower budget than ours, were Stoke, Swansea, Norwich when they got promoted as attractive for players as derby is now ? I can only judge what I see on the playing field, has Clough done a good job, probably yes, does he build me with confidence that he can take us to the next level, no....and I dont need to debate the accounts to come to that, I look at the results and performances. Im not saying x manager would do any better, just that life managing Derby is not always as bad as some make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Ill never understand why people ask this, are you saying that no other club is like Derby, or that no other manager could have achevied what Clough has done ? To ask for accurate players wages etc....is this so you can then go through and pick out things that arent true ? Have any other club invested within the youth system like derby have, do teams like Milwall and Charlton have a offering like Derby do away from the wage budget, for example Man City could have offered RVP more money but he chose to go to Utd because of other factors. Has any other team allowed their manager 4 years to build a team ? You could argue for ever about the circumstances that any manager has to manage in, are Palace on a lower budget than ours, were Stoke, Swansea, Norwich when they got promoted as attractive for players as derby is now ? I can only judge what I see on the playing field, has Clough done a good job, probably yes, does he build me with confidence that he can take us to the next level, no....and I dont need to debate the accounts to come to that, I look at the results and performances. Im not saying x manager would do any better, just that life managing Derby is not always as bad as some make out. If you're looking at the performances I'm surprised you have no confidence at all. I think most would agree there's a significant improvement in the quality of the playing staff, which has then resulted in improved performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 No,Leeds Ram, I've done it because others have referred to other clubs/managers and said that Clough is doing a far worse job than those in examples given (Mowbray at Boro being one of several offered up)-if those doing this are unable to match the circumstances,then the comparisons are invalid.In that respect I'd be quite entitled to challenge any 'evidence' offered up.I wouldn't be posting on this subject if others hadn't attempted to make such comparisons. As to whether there are other managers who might do a better job,then that's purely a matter of opinion and I've no objections to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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