Asanovic Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 [size=4]Don't necessarily agree with this whole 'if your face fits' idea. I think it's more 'if you tow line I expect you to tow' with Clough. From an outsider's point of view (with no personal connections to the club, inside knowledge etc), it looked obvious that Leacock, Maguire, Bywater and Cwyka didn't tow that line and he shipped them out. On the other hand, he persists with people that may be of limited ability, but are prepared to work like builders – I’m thinking Stephen Pearson. It’s why Bryson will always have a slot in the first team (although he is a talented player in addition to having a top work rate), why O'Brien will probably have a big future here whilever Clough's in charge, why Buxton is a first choice centre half, and why he would’ve kept Green if we could have afforded him. It’s also perhaps why James Bailey can’t get a look in at the moment. I agree that there needs to be a balance struck between ability and attitude, and this is probably where Clough falls down. He doesn’t seem to be able to embrace a players arrogance and channel it positively, and why we’ll never sign anyone like a Taarabt or a Lee Trundle. He's also probably never had to deal with egos, and doesn't find it easy. It'd be good to have someone experienced who's been around the block on the coaching staff, just to be a soundboard on how to handle certain situations. A bit more emotional intelligence and I think we could kept hold of some of the players above. No real point to this post, just typing stuff as it came in to me ‘ed.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Not really sure why you would want to have kept those players!! I think that NC deals with ego's very well - get rid of them so that the 'team' ethos that he is building is not disrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Not really sure why you would want to have kept those players!! I think that NC deals with ego's very well - get rid of them so that the 'team' ethos that he is building is not disrupted. Wouldn't mind having Cwyka and Maguire in this squad. I'm not 'anti Clough', far from it but I do think it's one of his weaknesses. Or 'areas for development' as they call it at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I agree with the fact he doesn't like egos but whether or not he can handle them is a different matter. I think he decided early in his career that he preferred to build a squad around hard working consistent players who can give you 7 out of 10 week in week out. Talking of Maguire. http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/178609-maguire/ He wasn't happy when he got subbed. Now where have i heard that before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIMBAUD Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I agree with the fact he doesn't like egos but whether or not he can handle them is a different matter. I think he decided early in his career that he preferred to build a squad around hard working consistent players who can give you 7 out of 10 week in week out. Talking of Maguire. [url=http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/178609-maguire/]http://www.owlstalk....178609-maguire/ He wasn't happy when he got subbed. Now where have i heard that before? perhaps clough was right perhaps mcguire is/was the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Maguire looks a decent technical footballer to me. I'm wondering if he might be a bit of a dick though now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I only saw him in the pre-season friendlies when he joined us. Did nothing to be noticed or to ensure he was picked. Obviously not prepared to knuckle down and learn so off he went. Won't miss him imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I just think that we Naylor we have signed O'Connor who is more experienced and up to the job and also Gjokaj has jumped ahead of him so we may as well loan him out and see if he kicks on. He had a few good games but a few shockers so not maybe up to this level yet and you cant make mistakes as a defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 perhaps clough was right perhaps mcguire is/was the problem Possibly. Makes you wonder why he was signed though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Possibly. Makes you wonder why he was signed though! Because he has ability and Clough hoped he could get him to work hard and show the right qualities to have that ability in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Because he has ability and Clough hoped he could get him to work hard and show the right qualities to have that ability in the squad. Fair enough. He probably should know by now the type of player that fits in with regard to work ethic though, specially as it means so much to him... I'd rather take the hard line like Clough than do what Warnock did with Taarabt, making him captain. Doesn't really set an example for hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIMBAUD Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Possibly. Makes you wonder why he was signed though! i think NC saw him as a replacement for commons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Fair enough. He probably should know by now the type of player that fits in with regard to work ethic though, specially as it means so much to him... I'd rather take the hard line like Clough than do what Warnock did with Taarabt, making him captain. Doesn't really set an example for hard work. Didnt they get promoted though? Jim Smith used to be softer with certain players (the better ones) as its sometimes what is needed. Im not placing Maguire in ths category just pointing out that managers do use it to be successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Didnt they get promoted though? Jim Smith used to be softer with certain players (the better ones) as its sometimes what is needed. Im not placing Maguire in ths category just pointing out that managers do use it to be successful They got promoted, but I don't think it was down to him being captain. He certainly showed how petulant he can be last season. If Joey Barton has to tell you to buck your ideas up it's a poor do. I agree with the softer approach in certain situations. I don't think it was ever going to work with Bywater, but wih Cwyka it feels like a situation could have been salvaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I agree with the fact he doesn't like egos but whether or not he can handle them is a different matter. I think he decided early in his career that he preferred to build a squad around hard working consistent players who can give you 7 out of 10 week in week out. Talking of Maguire. http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/178609-maguire/ He wasn't happy when he got subbed. Now where have i heard that before? Maybe my phone, but all I saw was a comment saying he looked disappointed when being taken off?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 They got promoted, but I don't think it was down to him being captain. He certainly showed how petulant he can be last season. If Joey Barton has to tell you to buck your ideas up it's a poor do. I agree with the softer approach in certain situations. I don't think it was ever going to work with Bywater, but wih Cwyka it feels like a situation could have been salvaged. I think it was to make Taarabt to feel important, the key man and to get the best out of him which it did and he was a big part in them going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Didnt they get promoted though? Jim Smith used to be softer with certain players (the better ones) as its sometimes what is needed. Im not placing Maguire in ths category just pointing out that managers do use it to be successful There's different ways of dealing with players, and I'm not sure a right way or wrong way exists, as long as you use your method to achieve what you want to achieve. Fergie and Berbatov/Morrison/Pogba are similar to Clough and other players. Many times Fergie picked inferior players above him and despite often leaving his "better" players out of the side for various reason, they only lost to City on goal difference. United have got their culture by ruthlessness and integrity from their manager who has the balls to make the decisions. Then, you have other managers who pick complete a*ses in their team and get just as good results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydan Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Don't know if this is the right place but I've seen alot of mentions for James O'Connor personally I think he's the worst signing nige has made very poor defender out of position loads looses the ball very easily ect....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 There's different ways of dealing with players, and I'm not sure a right way or wrong way exists, as long as you use your method to achieve what you want to achieve. Fergie and Berbatov/Morrison/Pogba are similar to Clough and other players. Many times Fergie picked inferior players above him and despite often leaving his "better" players out of the side for various reason, they only lost to City on goal difference. United have got their culture by ruthlessness and integrity from their manager who has the balls to make the decisions. Then, you have other managers who pick complete a*ses in their team and get just as good results. I agree fergie at times toes that line but also let the players like Cantona and Ronaldo get away with a lot more then the lesser or what may be classed as steady players did. I guess its a balance of man management. Clough has his way or the highway and lets hope it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I agree fergie at times toes that line but also let the players like Cantona and Ronaldo get away with a lot more then the lesser or what may be classed as steady players did. I guess its a balance of man management. Clough has his way or the highway and lets hope it works. Apart from Commons possibly, Clough has never had a player comparable with Cantona and Ronaldo at this level. Leaving out Robinson, or dropping players like Cywka and Maguire completely, is a very different game to leaving Commons to rot in the reserves, which Clough never did. Commons was very clearly a money grabber but he was played right up until his sale. If we get to the Premier League, that will be the true test of Clough's style to prove if it can work at that level. I think he has proved it works so far. We improve with a shrinking budget year on year, and although we're often outclassed, I can't remember the last time we didn't look bothered, and despite not having many "proven" players a this level due to not being able to afford them, we continue to play above ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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