Nigel in, Board in

[Obi1Kenobi0]

I think there is a middle ground with Clough. If the plan was a long term project - and by that I mean 5+ years - then as long as progress is being made the board and Clough will be happy with that. There is progress, albeit slow, and at least we're not paying over the odds for wages/players any more.

That said, I think we are at the stage where fans can see with the addition of a couple of quality players on perm signings (centre mid, striker?) we could push on from the mid-table team we are now. Derby fans are too used to boom and bust (mainly bust) and want results quickly. In this league it is so easy to go on a bad run but then turn it around which is what we have been doing. Fans are too quick to jump on the bandwagon, sometimes on both sides of the scale.

Generally, I'm happy enough with Clough and the board but have that uneasy feeling things could and should be so much better. If we went for a couple of marquee signings it would pay dividends. We need a catalyst, like a Stimac, Van Der Laan, Saunders, Idiakez. We are crying out for players of those calibre. I reckon 5million would make a massive difference to this side. It would create a buzz, lift the current players and fans. Speculate to accumulate. I'm not (and never have) suggesting we go for broke, but we are at the cliff edge I feel. We could stay as we are, and get by on work ethic, spirit and a smattering of quality and hope with slow steady progress we go up sometime over the next 5-6 years. Or we spend a bit and at least have a go at getting out this league. Just a tad demoralised we (and others) now associate Derby with having no ambition.

[Martyn]

Celebrating a win isn't possible for some on here. As mentioned previously, one win in the last ten is correct. 13 wins in the last 34 is correct too. Also 7 draws and 14 defeats to complete the stats. That tells us what most of us know. We're a mid table team with few resources to change anything at the moment.

My head has never been anywhere near Nigel's anus and I'm sure both of us are very happy about that. That said, unlike some, I'm sure we are also both happy when we don't lose. So, I think a draw at Brum and a win against Blackpool is something to be pleased about and I rejoice in being able to say that as a counter to those who prefer to dwell on the defeats.

Post of the week for me.

[networker1884]

Tits out, always, at all costs.

Unless they're man tits, man tits should always stay in.

[Catch 23]

Celebrating a win isn't possible for some on here. As mentioned previously, one win in the last ten is correct. 13 wins in the last 34 is correct too. Also 7 draws and 14 defeats to complete the stats. That tells us what most of us know. We're a mid table team with few resources to change anything at the moment.

My head has never been anywhere near Nigel's anus and I'm sure both of us are very happy about that. That said, unlike some, I'm sure we are also both happy when we don't lose. So, I think a draw at Brum and a win against Blackpool is something to be pleased about and I rejoice in being able to say that as a counter to those who prefer to dwell on the defeats.

Agree very much with you on being happy with draws. Of course, it's not always a good thing, I was disappointed that we couldn't get more against Millwall, but every so often, as on Saturday against Brum, it is a satisfactory result, and I was happy for us to shut up shop on that particular occasion.

[WilkoRam]

We've had two good results, and hopefully we have a run of good results now. However happy I am about that I still don't think we have the right set up. We have once again gone on 3 runs where we have failed to win in 5 or more games. This has happened in every season Nigel has been in charge.

09/10 - 2 runs without winning in 5 games (plus many of other of 4 without a win) - finished 14th (53 scored, 63 conceded -10 dif)

10/11 - 4 runs without winning in 5 games (runs of no win in 6, 5, 9 and 5) - finished 19th (58 scored, 71 conceded -13 dif)

11/12 - so far 3 runs (runs of no win in 5, 6 and 8) - currently 14th (37 scored, 45 conceded, -8 dif)

and most of the results in these runs are losses.

I'm cheering and shouting as much as the next person when we win or score. But 2 good results doesn't make me forget other stuff. I don't see the progression. We aren't playing any better, are league finishes aren't any better, our goal difference isn't any better.

[p.shilton]

We've had two good results, and hopefully we have a run of good results now. However happy I am about that I still don't think we have the right set up. We have once again gone on 3 runs where we have failed to win in 5 or more games. This has happened in every season Nigel has been in charge.

09/10 - 2 runs without winning in 5 games (plus many of other of 4 without a win) - finished 14th (53 scored, 63 conceded -10 dif)

10/11 - 4 runs without winning in 5 games (runs of no win in 6, 5, 9 and 5) - finished 19th (58 scored, 71 conceded -13 dif)

11/12 - so far 3 runs (runs of no win in 5, 6 and 8) - currently 14th (37 scored, 45 conceded, -8 dif)

and most of the results in these runs are losses.

I'm cheering and shouting as much as the next person when we win or score. But 2 good results doesn't make me forget other stuff. I don't see the progression. We aren't playing any better, are league finishes aren't any better, our goal difference isn't any better.

league finishes aren't any better? We are 3 points of last seasons tally- do you think that we won't get more tan 3 points from our last 12 matches?

[WilkoRam]

league finishes aren't any better? We are 3 points of last seasons tally- do you think that we won't get more tan 3 points from our last 12 matches?

We're 10 points off the total we got in his first season. We'd need to better that for me to say there was progress. So if we go backwards one season we only have to be compared against that season to mark a success? Surely from 14th with 56 points to 19th with 49 points isn't progress. To better 49 points this time still isn't progress. If we beat the 56 points total by 1 or 2 points that's still not really progress, it's standing still. Progress would be top half finish in my book.

I don't understand that some people will consider 50 points and finishing 18th as progress.

[Catch 23]

We're 10 points off the total we got in his first season. We'd need to better that for me to say there was progress. So if we go backwards one season we only have to be compared against that season to mark a success? Surely from 14th with 56 points to 19th with 49 points isn't progress. To better 49 points this time still isn't progress. If we beat the 56 points total by 1 or 2 points that's still not really progress, it's standing still. Progress would be top half finish in my book.

I don't understand that some people will consider 50 points and finishing 18th as progress.

I agree, but we've got 12 games still to go, and I'd say 5 or 6 of them are winnable. There's still time to get as many points as possible. We're not just going to stop once we reach 50 points.

Also, whisper it, but in one line you've said bettering 56 points is progress, in another you've said that 'it's still not really progress, it's standing still'. Make your mind up, chap!

[Asanovic]

I'm not just measuring progress on the field.

We're signing up more exciting youth prospects to compliment the ones we have, our wage bill is more manageable and I don't feel like we're in danger of doing a Portsmouth, Luton, Darlington, Port Vale, Rangers or whoever else you can think of.

We'll come good, properly good, and will compete for the top six, but it will be with a team full of our own. I can't wait for it. It might take another season or two, but it's gonna be good.

Not much of this is down to Clough himself, so I'm not 'up his arse', I'm just saying, progress, as a club, is being made in my opinion.

[p.shilton]

We're 10 points off the total we got in his first season. We'd need to better that for me to say there was progress. So if we go backwards one season we only have to be compared against that season to mark a success? Surely from 14th with 56 points to 19th with 49 points isn't progress. To better 49 points this time still isn't progress. If we beat the 56 points total by 1 or 2 points that's still not really progress, it's standing still. Progress would be top half finish in my book.

I don't understand that some people will consider 50 points and finishing 18th as progress.

Is that the season where we had Commons and Hulse and many others on stupid wages? Thought so.

[Gary Teale]

Is that the season where we had Commons and Hulse and many others on stupid wages? Thought so.

Do we actually know what stupid wages they were on? To be fair they both moved on and most likely got more money so maybe they were worth the money they were being paid

[p.shilton]

Do we actually know what stupid wages they were on? To be fair they both moved on and most likely got more money so maybe they were worth the money they were being paid

Didn't say they weren't worth the money being paid- merely pointing out that players like that are not available to us with our wage structure and lack of debt- therefore comparing the league position of the season where we had players on big wages to this season is pointless. I suspect that we may get more than 10 points from the remaining fixtures anyway- in that case it will certainly be progress as we will have managed it on a shoestring compared to previous expenditure.

How people are expecting us to compete straight away at the top of the table after a massive restructuring of both playing staff and the wage structure is beyond me. We haven't been relegated and are around the same area we were in terms of points that we were whilst paying significantly less in wages and bringing the debt down- if that isn't progress I don't know what is.

[WilkoRam]

Is that the season where we had Commons and Hulse and many others on stupid wages? Thought so.

Sorry is that the Hulse that was benched in favour of Porter.

And Commons who we offered a good contract to (meeting his demands) showing we can afford those types of players?

Thought so

[WilkoRam]

I agree, but we've got 12 games still to go, and I'd say 5 or 6 of them are winnable. There's still time to get as many points as possible. We're not just going to stop once we reach 50 points.

Also, whisper it, but in one line you've said bettering 56 points is progress, in another you've said that 'it's still not really progress, it's standing still'. Make your mind up, chap!

Just to clarify. I think we have to beat 56 points to progress and more than by just a few points.

I say points must show progress as playing style certainly isn't. One of the two needs to improve to show progress.

[PBW Ram]

Just to clarify. I think we have to beat 56 points to progress and more than by just a few points.

I say points must show progress as playing style certainly isn't. One of the two needs to improve to show progress.

Surely you'll admit that the football is getting better Wilko? I know it's only in patches but some of the stuff I've seen this year has been really good, fast flowing stuff.

I agree we dont do it anywhere near often enough, but we're doing it more often every season.

Progress will come with consistency, consistency will come with experience, experience will come with money, which we dont have, or with time which we do.

Unless we've got a spare 4-5 mill lying around, I'm prepared to wait for the lads to blossom.

[Catch 23]

Just to clarify. I think we have to beat 56 points to progress and more than by just a few points.

I say points must show progress as playing style certainly isn't. One of the two needs to improve to show progress.

Oh ok, fair enough then. I still think we've got enough games left to beat 56 points though. Looking down the remaining fixtures:

Watford (H)

Forest (H)

Doncaster (A)

Brighton (A)

Palace (H)

Bristol City (A)

Ipswich (H)

Leeds (A)

Cardiff (A)

Middlesbrough (H)

Pompey (A)

Peterborough (H)

The only ones in which I don't really fancy our chances are Brighton (A), Cardiff (A) and Boro (H), and even they are games in which we could snatch a point. Who thought we'd get anything at Brum? Perhaps we might struggle at home to Palace if the backlog of games catches up with us, but I'd have thought we'd get something from it.

[Alph]

Going 1-0 down was a blessing. It showed how we could play rather well if we tried to score before the other team.

Good win. Deserved. But I'd like to see us play how we came out after HT at the start of every game.

Sort it Nigel. We look more like "keeping clean sheets" and "not losing" and defensively solid when we give the opposing team something to consider.

[-JW-]

next 3 games are against very poor teams, would be dissapointed if we lose 1 of them.

[trekkie_ram]

A real delight is our ability to come from behind and win/draw. Proved twice in a week.

A real disappointment is that we consistently play worse in the first half. I'd be very curious to see a league table based purely on our second half results.

[PBW Ram]

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/sndhalf.html