ShaunTheRam Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 You said that Guardiola being their longest serving manager didn't do them any harm. We, and they have had loads of managers - there the comparison ends!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 You said that Guardiola being their longest serving manager didn't do them any harm. We, and they have had loads of managers - there the comparison ends!!I just said it is a fallacy that changing managers frequently is necessarily a bad thing is all. Also I did not say he was their longest serving manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunTheRam Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 It is not necessarily a bad thing when you have the resources of Barcelona and any manager can come in and buy any player. You said second longest, if you want to split hairs - there's not really much difference is there? When you have the resources of Derby, I can't see that regular changes of manager help - just look at our recent history rather than Barcelonas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 It is not necessarily a bad thing when you have the resources of Barcelona and any manager can come in and buy any player. You said second longest, if you want to split hairs - there's not really much difference is there? When you have the resources of Derby, I can't see that regular changes of manager help - just look at our recent history rather than Barcelonas.Lets take Leicester then, has not done them much harm has it, I suppose you will have another limp excuse:). Any club, with any ambition, if the manager is not cutting it, gets cut, simple kkk, if not you wind up with what we have now, great innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClement Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I don't really have a problem with the strikers last night but I thought there was a real lack of creativity from midfield. We pass it sideways and backwards a lot but we're hardly putting any good balls into the box either on the floor or wide from crosses. -I totally agree with this assessment. Savage is a big culprit, because he is past it and has no vision and no time on the ball so always goes backwards or sideways and has done throughout alll of his fruitless stay here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunTheRam Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Lets take Leicester then, has not done them much harm has it, I suppose you will have another limp excuse:). Any club, with any ambition, if the manager is not cutting it, gets cut, simple kkk, if not you wind up with what we have now, great innit Having a wealthy bloke come in and pour money in, appointing a manager earning a fortune who has international experience, and paying the wages that come with it, has certainly not done Leicester any harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClement Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 It is not necessarily a bad thing when you have the resources of Barcelona and any manager can come in and buy any player. . If Nigel Clough had the resources of Barcelona, he still wouldnt have the contacts, or scouting set up or knowledge of the game to acquire any good players. Most of the players he has bought have been very poor. As far as resources go -we have a higher wage bill and have signed more players than many of the clubs above us in the championship. No players at all are now coming through the academy -guess who appointed the people running that -developing conference level players wont do for the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-1 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 It's probably been brought up a thousand times, if not on here, then certainly in the press that Barcelona's first team contains 8 players who came up through their academy. And their second team currently lies sixth in the second division with ONLY players from the academy, no outside signings at all. Aah, and they don't have 'an owner' to pump in millions (which is not to say they don't have resources). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 blame for our current situation must be apportioned between the board ,players and management,although I blame clough mostly.I know everybodys protesting against the board (on a weekly basis now,which is becoming a bit stupid now,save it til the end of the season),but the board isnt playing people out of position on a regular basis,isnt changing the starting line up week after week,isnt slagging the players off publically,isnt making bizarre substitutions and isnt recruiting useless "old pals" as coaching staff. Clough is out of his depth but to get anywhere either clough needs to man up and demand more funds or the board need to man up and sack him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I’ll just apportion blame for yesterday’s match. In the first half we didn’t look like relegation fodder but it was still a dull, bottom-half of the table performance. For once I wished I was doing something else. I mostly blame GSE/investors for not investing. Others will mostly blame Clough. So it goes. In the second half there was a complete implosion of player’s confidence after the second goal went in. I blame that on the players. Their collapse was completely unexpected, especially after the last two games. They were incomprehensibly woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Some of you should be politicians. Smiffy correct me if I'm wrong but I understand you point re Barcelona to be in direct response to all of those who have said that long term success is only down to a long term manager. This then is ignored and money becomes the topic again diverting it away from the original point. How long was Ancelloti at Chelsea before he won anything, Redknapp at Spurs before champions league qualification, Coyle at Bolton, Houghton at Newcastle, Holloway at Blackpool, etc, etc. You keep a good manager you don't keep a manager for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteDerby Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 50% GSE for not investing 43% Robbie Savage for being a tool 0.18% Cywka not clearing it into the corners. 5% Clough for failing to get a striker in 0.82% Bywaters twitterings 0.5% Micheal Boulding - not sure what he's done but nobody seems to want him 0.5% Badger running under Davs car. superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunTheRam Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Wilko, My aim certainly wasn't to convert the debate to money, but it is interesting if you compare similar clubs to us in size. I don't have the facts and figures to hand, but look at Leeds, Forest, Leicester, and see how much instability there has been there. They all ended up in "division 3". We have had bags of instability, and have had only 2 decent season from the last god knows how many. I think there is evidence both ways on this one, but I think we need some stability at the whole club. And money of course;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozzling Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Some of you should be politicians. Smiffy correct me if I'm wrong but I understand you point re Barcelona to be in direct response to all of those who have said that long term success is only down to a long term manager. This then is ignored and money becomes the topic again diverting it away from the original point. How long was Ancelloti at Chelsea before he won anything, Redknapp at Spurs before champions league qualification, Coyle at Bolton, Houghton at Newcastle, Holloway at Blackpool, etc, etc. You keep a good manager you don't keep a manager for the sake of it. Didn't Holloway get Blackpool into the PL through the playoffs in his very first season? I'm not nitpicking, I'm genuinely not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Didn't Holloway get Blackpool into the PL through the playoffs in his very first season? I'm not nitpicking, I'm genuinely not sure. He did and that's my point. The managers above came in and did things. There were signs that things would be better under them and they should keep their jobs (Houghton should not have been sacked). Saying we should keep Nigel because we have had too many managers recently is redundant in my view. Yes stability is great, it's wanted but only with the right man. You don't keep the wrong man just for the sake of it. If you think Nigel is the right man then that's one thing but saying we can't keep changing managers is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 He did and that's my point. The managers above came in and did things. There were signs that things would be better under them and they should keep their jobs (Houghton should not have been sacked). Saying we should keep Nigel because we have had too many managers recently is redundant in my view. Yes stability is great, it's wanted but only with the right man. You don't keep the wrong man just for the sake of it. If you think Nigel is the right man then that's one thing but saying we can't keep changing managers is something else. But Holloway followed a manager who had had a couple of years improving the team and he took over a succesful team. No worries about Shipping out expensive crap and deadwood from the squad, no need to reduce wages as the previous manager and board had run a tight ship. He took over Blackpool at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 But Holloway followed a manager who had had a couple of years improving the team and he took over a succesful team. No worries about Shipping out expensive crap and deadwood from the squad, no need to reduce wages as the previous manager and board had run a tight ship. He took over Blackpool at the right time. i dont think that holloway is the brilliant manager a lot of people think he is.his record isnt that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ram Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 i dont think that holloway is the brilliant manager a lot of people think he is.his record isnt that great. Holloway got Promotion to The Premiership, so it is a lot better record than Clough's at the moment. :frown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinder bueno Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 yes i agree with the comments on this thread.we get rid of hulse,commons,moxey and the only decent player we got in at the mo is robinson.the board said tht cloughie would get the funds from the commons sale to bolster the squad did he i dont no.all i say is sack the lot and start again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 yes i agree with the comments on this thread.we get rid of hulse,commons,moxey and the only decent player we got in at the mo is robinson.the board said tht cloughie would get the funds from the commons sale to bolster the squad did he i dont no.all i say is sack the lot and start again!!! lol. Robinson looked promising in his first 2 games, sure, but he isn't the only decent player we've bought in. Brayford and Bailey would definitely have something to say about that as would Barker. If you're going to include loans in that, bringing in Kuqi, Moore, Fielding, Ayala, Dickov, Campbell, Tonge were good decisions. Everybody from the board to the manager to the playing squad was sacked, so going through all that again would send a similar shock wave throughout Derby and the last one didn't go to well. Patience is a virtue, as they say, so wait until the summer. The board could go, maybe it will be the manager or maybe a few players we're surprised by...ala Green, Leacock, Bywater along with Savage who leaves for a retirement home.....in Monaco or Switzerland. Wouldn't be surprised to see Clough get his wish of 6 established quality championship players either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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