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Tim Bucktoo

Derby are so average

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3 hours ago, Mistaram said:

General  What chairman or fans are going to wait ten years You can build a team in a season its been done many times try Huddersfield for a start or Billy Davis yes your right a quick build can fall apart so can one that takes years No way were we improving every season under Clough we were just a boring going nowhere team His arrogant after match interviews were an embarrassment after any defeat it was never ever his fault always the players 

We gave it many years with the Clough/McLaren era. What I was getting at in my post was that the only reason that was allowed to happen was because we had no expectation.

The club now has an expectation to be in the very least ion the playoff places, with expectation and no success you are going to end up in a vicious cycle of no results, no confidence and crap football.

Expectation needs to be lowered or we need success to match it. Otherwise it's going to be (And is...) a constant moan.

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9 hours ago, GeneralRam said:

We gave it many years with the Clough/McLaren era. What I was getting at in my post was that the only reason that was allowed to happen was because we had no expectation.

The club now has an expectation to be in the very least in the playoff places, with expectation and no success you are going to end up in a vicious cycle of no results, no confidence and crap football.

Of course there was expectation with Clough, expectation that he'd stop us being relegated!

Is there a club in the Championship that doesn't have some expectation of Top 6? If the players have no expectations then there'll be no ambitions and no ability to cope with the pressure needed to reach the top. Of course we need expectations, but managed realistically - not Rowett and his Top 2 stuff, made a rod for his own back there!

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9 hours ago, GeneralRam said:

We gave it many years with the Clough/McLaren era. What I was getting at in my post was that the only reason that was allowed to happen was because we had no expectation.

The club now has an expectation to be in the very least ion the playoff places, with expectation and no success you are going to end up in a vicious cycle of no results, no confidence and crap football.

Expectation needs to be lowered or we need success to match it. Otherwise it's going to be (And is...) a constant moan.

 

Part of the problem was coming out before Sunderland saying about our aims of play offs, I presume at that stage they were confident of getting a few out and in but it hasn't helped. It's desperate even now for someone to say patience is needed but that's not the rhetoric coming out of the club.

The OTT-style of fans this year has been ridiculous, too many who can't wait to say 'I told you so' rather than being constructive/supportive. It's sad because these people don't have answers, they just want to be right rather than what's good for their club...rant over!

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 13:48, David said:

As we've started down the Nigel Clough path, my fault, apologies. 

Forget Mel, let's assume he won't sack Rowett, won't happen.

What did Nigel Clough get right straight away to not be questioned this early into his tenure as Rowett is?

As @GeneralRam said Nigel improved us slowly, but the season he arrived in the January we finished 18th. The following season he took us up to the dizzy heights of 14th with a full season in charge, great, the first 9 games in we had W3 D1 L5. Lost 4 in a row at one point. 

Was there calls for him to go, questioning him 9 games in, I honestly can't remember. Or did we have more patience back then, realised the size of the job on his hands?

For what it's worth the next season he took us back 5 places into 19th yet stayed in the job.

The last two seasons a rebuild has been talked about on this forum at least, big clear out of failed players. Rowett is the first man to actually start that rebuilding process, spoke of his frustrations not being able to do more. Did we expect it to be done in one window, wave his wand and away we go?

I've seen fans questioning the Rowett appointment, what track record does he have, what track record did Nigel have when we appointed him? Never managed a single Championship game yet he we are, 4 years on, still giving him credit for building the squad which was the foundations of renewed expectations are built on.

That squad was built over a number of seasons, not one window. Was the job harder? of course, financially Nigel's hands were tied as are Rowett's compared to previous managers.

Just trying to understand why we've gone from a club that was outraged at a manager being sacked after several seasons, to one now that's writing a manager off after 9 games in, almost goading Mel to pull the trigger. 

Can we not see that foundations are built on stability, don't tell me the football under Nigel was always pretty, we had to endure some pretty rough stuff back then.

Nigel clough got time to build a side simply because of his surname CLOUGH.his appointment kept the fans off the then directors backs.

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Just now, r_wilcockson said:

Saw someone comment on twitter that we have now won 3,drew 3 and lost 3.scored 13 and conceded 13. We are the definition of an average championship team. 

Aye, saw that too. 6 points from relegation, 6 points from play offs too.

But we're bottom half, sliding further down and can't keep the ball for more than 3 seconds.

Other than that, all is well.

 

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On 24/09/2017 at 19:37, Bris Vegas said:

Clough bought himself plenty of time by bringing in young players.

The likes of Brayford, Bailey, Cywka, Bryson, Russell, Martin, Pringle, Buxton, Moxey, Fielding, Maguire, Naylor, Theo, Coutts, Sammon, Forsyth...

If I'm not mistaken, all of these players were brought in when they 25 or younger while the likes of Keogh and Shackell came at 26/27.

McClaren's first window here saw Thorne and Christie arrive. 

Compare that to the 2015/16 window under Clement when Baird, Bent, Carson, Pearce, Shackell, Bradley Johnson arrived... All 27 or over on big wages.

I thought Rowett would at least push for a long-term plan by bringing in younger players again, but somehow he has only brought our average age up with the likes of Davies, Huddlestone and Ledley.

We've become a retirement home for some and others looking for that final paycheque.

Clement's signings were very expensive and long term stays and surprisingly McClarens were very decent ( despite a career of variable signings) Clough signings were as we know very sensible and cheap.

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