Bris Sulking & McGuardiolalovin

[Sexydadbod]

46 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

no use of the word 'think' here!

Okay, I'll allow you to backtrack and worm your way out of it. You've no business being to brash, assertive and adamant in your predictions, and when dismissing someone else's opinion if you're not convinced your own argument is true, that is conceited and disrespectful. If you believe it, fine, but you clearly don't.

I would probably think Guardiola is a very clever football man, and I also think he has an aura that would work well on professionals, however, it remains to be seen how well he handles any sort of minor crisis. Would he have done better at Villa than Garde? Who knows?

For me though, there are better managers out there, someone like Benitez for example. Much better IMO, simply cos he's proven to be able to achieve something, not just steer the boat.

Pick and choose what you want. Read the first line of what you said, I clearly stated "I think" at the start of that paragraph .Benitez better than Guardiola? Now I know you're trolling. Benitez got sacked from Real Madrid because the job was too big for him. No offence but I'm sure that some of the best players to ever grace the game know a thing or 2 more than a poster on a derby forum who is letting his own predjudice get in the way. Every player who has worked under guardiola as said he is a genius. In fact there was an interview involving javi martinez posted a few days ago where he said that guardiola makes players specialties in different positions and praises him over that. You just said it yourself, you said you don't watch the german or spanish league so how can you form a true opinion on guardiola?

[Highgate]

I'll pay £25 to charity if Man City don't win the league next year, if somebody will pay £25  to charity if they do win the league.   Can raise it to £50 is someone is feeling particular feisty ! 

[Sexydadbod]

56 minutes ago, Kernow said:

Shock McLovin makes a claim that cannot possibly be wrong then when he's asked to put his money where his mouth is goes silent. Still waiting for you to bet me that Derby won't make the play-offs seeing as you're 99.999% sure we wo... oh wait.

I've already responded to this, I'm not going to again

[Bris Vegas]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Phenomenal? Nah.

Decent? Yes.

No plan B and has been easily outwitted by clever managers of teams with far less talent in their team.

I had absolutely no doubt that Bayern would not qualify last night because, like you with Clough, I know Guardiola's limitations.

He will be phenomenal the day he does something with a team that is not already great. Basically so far he has had everything handed to him on a plate.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I'm neither a hater nor lacking knowledge, I just don't exist in the alternate reality you do. Your clear bias towards Spanish football has clearly formulated what, in my opinion, is an inability to judge football, at all levels, realistically. 

The fact that you cite Bayern and Barcelona players, who've perhaps NEVER played at, nor enjoyed any success at another club, and could possibly trying to entice a move to Bayern previously or Man City next season, as stating he's a great coach, and you taking those comments as both relevant and valid is ridiculous!

If you were to pick two random modern legends in the game, or three, Giggs, Gerrard and Paolo Maldini, and ask them who the best coach they've ever had is, do you think ANY of them would mention Guardiola? I know they won't and there's a reason why, and then exact reason is why it makes no difference why someone who's only played at Barcelona mentions Guardiola as the best!

Similarly, Shaun Barker said recently the best manager he played for is Nigel Clough.

Why is my point about Ranieri irrelevant? He's achieved something. He's taken a team of players and improved them to the point of achieving something they shouldn't have been able to do. Guardiola on the other hand, has been given a 95% completed jigsaw puzzle that only needed the corner pieces putting in place. HIs time at Bayern will probably be seen as failure. Similarly, I don't think Warnock ability-wise would have struggled to win 11 trophies in four years at Barcelona! I don't think I would've struggled to succeed. That team coaches itself ffs! I've got hundreds of players who list me as their favourite personnel on Football Manager, I must be awesome!

You're both clearly ignorant in your suggestions. Fair enough, haters are going to hate.

Has been outwitted by teams with clearly less talent? Who exactly? Bayern's last three semi-final CL defeats have come against the 2014 winner, the 2015 winner (and arguably greatest front three in history) and 2014 runner-up who beat the 2015 winner in the previous round.

Guardiola's record against Mourinho, a fairly clever manager, is phenonemal. He took a Barcelona side which finished 3rd and 18 points behind Real Madrid to the very top. He saw something in Pique which Sir Alex Ferguson didn't.

His Barcelona side regularly got the better of the most expensive side in history (Real Madrid) managed by one of the grestest managers in history (Mourinho). That's pretty phenonemal.

So players like Lahm, Muller and Xavi who have played under LVG, Joachim Low, Jupp Heynckes, Rijkaard, Del Bosque, Luis Aragones and Guardiola stating the latter is the best is irrelevant or ridiculous? What planet are you living on?

Why would Maldini, Giggs or Gerrard say it when neither have played under him?

Your suggestion that Guardiola took over 95% of the jigsaw, and that Warnock would win 11 trophies in four years at Barcelona, shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I don't even know why I'm responding to you to be honest. You clearly have no clue.

[AmericanRam]

Deleted.

[Sexydadbod]

For your own humour Mostyn what has Benitez achieved that Guardiola hasn't achieved?

[TheDeadlySaul]

1 minute ago, McLovin said:

For your own humour Mostyn what has Benitez achieved that Guardiola hasn't achieved?

If Guardiola can win the Champions league with that Liverpool team that Benitez had than I would be impressed.

[Sexydadbod]

I'm pretty convinced that Guardiola will be a success here, will happily admit it if I'm wrong. As for the post whether Guardiola would do it with Leicester, who knows?  That was Ranieri's first ever top tier league title win in his career and he has managed some pretty massive clubs:florintina,Napoli,Valencia,Atletico Madrid,Juventus,Inter Milan and Chelsea. That shows that the argument that anyone can help manage a top team to glory is pretty false. There are other factors to take into consideration of course

[Sexydadbod]

8 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

If Guardiola can win the Champions league with that Liverpool team that Benitez had than I would be impressed.

Well we won't know will we but we do know that when Rafa has been sacked a number of times in his career so far,his latest being real madrid where he lasted half a season

[TheDeadlySaul]

1 minute ago, McLovin said:

Well we won't know will we but we do know that when Rafa has been sacked a number of times in his career so far,his latest being real madrid where he lasted half a season

We going to take sackings from Real Madrid into account? You could win the treble there and be sacked the next season for finishing second.

[Sexydadbod]

If anyone can manage Barca then why didn't Barca ever win the treble before Guardiola was in charge? Not even if Cruyff dream team did it.

[Bris Vegas]

7 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

If Guardiola can win the Champions league with that Liverpool team that Benitez had than I would be impressed.

Winning a knockout competition against the odds doesn't make you a phenonemal manager. I don't see many clubs lining up for Roberto Di Matteo after he won the CL and was later sacked by Schalke.

Thing is, such talk of this is irrelevant. Guardiola would never need to manage a Liverpool team like that, or Leicester, Rotherham, Aston Villa or any other side of that ilk for that matter.

He got the Barcelona job on merit for doing great things with the youth teams, and he changed the game in his time there. No other manager could have done what he did in terms of revolutionising the game.

The fact that he will be remembered in 100 years time is proof of his brilliance. Will Benitez be remembered in 100 years time? Absolutely not.

[Sexydadbod]

2 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

We going to take sackings from Real Madrid into account? You could win the treble there and be sacked the next season for finishing second.

Big difference is Benitez achieved neither for Madrid because he wasn't good enough and didn't have a strong mental side. He crumbled to the crowd pressure. I don't even know why I'm debating this. Mourinho, who hates Guardiola, would agree this debate is laughable

[SaintRam]

Just now, Bris Vegas said:

Winning a knockout competition against the odds doesn't make you a phenonemal manager. I don't see many clubs lining up for Roberto Di Matteo after he won the CL and was later sacked by Schalke.

Thing is, such talk of this is irrelevant. Guardiola would never need to manage a Liverpool team like that, or Leicester, Rotherham, Aston Villa or any other side of that ilk for that matter.

He got the Barcelona job on merit for doing great things with the youth teams, and he changed the game in his time there. No other manager could have done what he did in terms of revolutionising the game.

The fact that he will be remembered in 100 years time is proof of his brilliance. Will Benitez be remembered in 100 years time? Absolutely not.

I'm not in the camp attacking Guardiola, but you need to stop putting "facts" in your posts that simply aren't facts.

[TheDeadlySaul]

2 minutes ago, McLovin said:

If anyone can manage Barca then why didn't Barca ever win the treble before Guardiola was in charge? Not even if Cruyff dream team did it.

Guardiola's road to the champions league final was easy anyway, only had to beat Lyon, a poor Bayern side and were very lucky to beat Chelsea (a lot of dodgy refereeing calls that game). Plus that Barca side were so much better than then United side in terms of quality.

[Bris Vegas]

Just now, SaintRam said:

I'm not in the camp attacking Guardiola, but you need to stop putting "facts" in your posts that simply aren't facts.

This is a fact. Messi will be remembered as all-time great, as will Cristiano Ronaldo I imagine, and from our era the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola won't be forgotten in a hurry.

What Guardiola did at Barcelona may never be matched again. People won't forget that.

[SaintRam]

Just now, Bris Vegas said:

This is a fact. Messi will be remembered as all-time great, as will Cristiano Ronaldo I imagine, and from our era the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola won't be forgotten in a hurry.

What Guardiola did at Barcelona may never be matched again. People won't forget that.

Not saying it wont happen, just saying it absolutely isn't a fact. Defending what you claim to be a fact, as a fact, simply because it's likely is where madness lies. 

[Bris Vegas]

1 minute ago, SaintRam said:

Not saying it wont happen, just saying it absolutely isn't a fact. Defending what you claim to be a fact, as a fact, simply because it's likely is where madness lies. 

Ha! But it is a fact. Perhaps people in this country may not talk about him in 100 years time, but they certainly will in Spain. 

 

[Sexydadbod]

1 minute ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

Guardiola's road to the champions league final was easy anyway, only had to beat Lyon, a poor Bayern side and were very lucky to beat Chelsea (a lot of dodgy refereeing calls that game). Plus that Barca side were so much better than then United side in terms of quality.

That United side were the current European champions. Just a year before they played in the champions league and contained as well as knocked them out pretty easily but a year later Barca schooled United in the final. Showed what a difference Guardiola made in just a year. Lyon were a good team back in those days they had the likes of lloris,juninho,boumsong, govou,pjanic and benzema. Bayern may have been poor but only because Barca made them look poor

[TheDeadlySaul]

2 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Winning a knockout competition against the odds doesn't make you a phenonemal manager. I don't see many clubs lining up for Roberto Di Matteo after he won the CL and was later sacked by Schalke.

Thing is, such talk of this is irrelevant. Guardiola would never need to manage a Liverpool team like that, or Leicester, Rotherham, Aston Villa or any other side of that ilk for that matter.

He got the Barcelona job on merit for doing great things with the youth teams, and he changed the game in his time there. No other manager could have done what he did in terms of revolutionising the game.

The fact that he will be remembered in 100 years time is proof of his brilliance. Will Benitez be remembered in 100 years time? Absolutely not.

I'm pretty sure Benitez would be remembered, especially by Liverpool fans.

Plus I'm not saying that Guardiola isn't a bad manager, but he has never really had a tough task to show his brilliance. Johan Cryuff showed it with Ajax, Ferguson showed it with United and Aberdeen, Van Gaal did it with Ajax etc.

Guardiola's time at City will show how good he is as a manager.