Half fan Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 NUFC DCFC Large fan base / / Relative to poor league position / / Won nowt for years / / "We will win cup/league " stated / / Passionate fans / / Hard to please fans / / Hope turning to dust / / Autocratic Chairman / / Chairman is owner / / Coach not manager Schteve PC Coach not in charge of transfers / / Owner has own vision for Club / / Appalling transfers / / Millions wasted £50m £25m Rookie replaces coach John Carver DW Who will be coach & when / / New boss demands new powers Rafa? Pulis? Dyche? Pearson? Warburton? Increasingly restless fans losing faith / / And the moral of this Aesops Fable is? Could it be that the Manager has to manage everything, a Coach has to coach on the training ground, the CEO has to be the day to day Executive Club boss and respected as such, and the Chairman has to be, er, the hardly seen or heard Non-Executive who merely creates the structure and environment in which his management team get on with their jobs, standing or falling by what they achieve and not by whether how they go about their jobs fits or not? Blue touch paper lit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Half fan said: NUFC DCFC Large fan base / / Relative to poor league position / / Won nowt for years / / "We will win cup/league " stated / / Passionate fans / / Hard to please fans / / Hope turning to dust / / Autocratic Chairman / / Chairman is owner / / Coach not manager Schteve PC Coach not in charge of transfers / / Owner has own vision for Club / / Appalling transfers / / Millions wasted £50m £25m Rookie replaces coach John Carver DW Who will be coach & when / / New boss demands new powers Rafa? Pulis? Dyche? Pearson? Warburton? Increasingly restless fans losing faith / / And the moral of this Aesops Fable is? Could it be that the Manager has to manage everything, a Coach has to coach on the training ground, the CEO has to be the day to day Executive Club boss and respected as such, and the Chairman has to be, er, the hardly seen or heard Non-Executive who merely creates the structure and environment in which his management team get on with their jobs, standing or falling by what they achieve and not by whether how they go about their jobs fits or not? Blue touch paper lit! From what i can gather, Derby's Head Coach has more of a say in transfers than is the case at Newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwash_Ram Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Yes PC said he had final say on all transfers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 3 hours ago, Half fan said: NUFC DCFC Increasingly restless fans losing faith / / And the moral of this Aesops Fable is? Could it be that the Manager has to manage everything, a Coach has to coach on the training ground, the CEO has to be the day to day Executive Club boss and respected as such, and the Chairman has to be, er, the hardly seen or heard Non-Executive who merely creates the structure and environment in which his management team get on with their jobs, standing or falling by what they achieve and not by whether how they go about their jobs fits or not? Blue touch paper lit! Agree.....but even with your structure Mel could be involved/kept upto date by Sam as his CEO. Chairman has to guide. So if not happy with PC he could tell Sam....debate with Sam......and leave Sam to decide whether or not to pass message in code format onto Sam. managers and coaches can both work. Sam Allardyce at West Ham did a sterling job, despite the owners taking (rightly or wrongly) credit for some signings. Sam could choose not to play some of them. Most clubs now operate with the Manager not having sole choice on players. But whatever structure they have, they keep to......I've no owner/Chairman berating the staff openly. the structure, and thus culture is woeful at present. Sam on a long term locked in contract ?? Did he need to be? You should keep and retain staff by how you treat them currently, in real time. Mel knows full well Sam would not have stayed with the current organisation structure Mel introduced. So the contract lock in was to suit Mel in my Personal opinion. Always a danger to tie people in for ridiculOus lengths of time. Human nature to become manyana in such a situation and just say "yes boss, when's pay day?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKRam Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 11 minutes ago, Bwash_Ram said: Yes PC said he had final say on all transfers I don't recall him saying that. MM, on the other hand, tried repeatedly to instill the idea about PC's final sign off. It did not work on me, but it does work on many apparently. Or you've mixed PC with Rodgers up? During his tenure at Liverpool, Rodgers insisted he had the final say despite the notorious transfer committee. But he had already explained how things really worked there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Other football topic innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half fan Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 51 minutes ago, HKRam said: I don't recall him saying that. MM, on the other hand, tried repeatedly to instill the idea about PC's final sign off. It did not work on me, but it does work on many apparently. Or you've mixed PC with Rodgers up? During his tenure at Liverpool, Rodgers insisted he had the final say despite the notorious transfer committee. But he had already explained how things really worked there. Are we muddling up 'final say' and 'full control'? Herewith an analogy. 'Final say' on a dating website: "the choice for you is between Myra Hindley or Irma Grese, you have the final say". 'Full control' on a dating website: "Mel (wait for it) Messenger please". Is there a bit of a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Half fan said: Are we muddling up 'final say' and 'full control'? Herewith an analogy. 'Final say' on a dating website: "the choice for you is between Myra Hindley or Irma Grese, you have the final say". 'Full control' on a dating website: "Mel (wait for it) Messenger please". Is there a bit of a difference? Spot on. Semantics do matter in these cases. I reckon choice PC had was players offered or zilch. In PC shoes I would say yes. Especially if I already dialled the organisational structures, and way of operating. I also do agree with the sums involved, that a separate team of staff within clubs should be involved in buying players. McClaren signed up for this way when joining. Sam used his experience to get us some great quality loans. We have totally given up on loans now.....yet they offer the chance to acquire players we could not get permanently. I wonder, just wonder, if the transfer team decided to not go for loans......or did Mel decide loans were not going to be used by us. Our team is crying out for new blood, experience or youthful dazzling skill from a Premier League team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 hour ago, igorlegend said: Spot on. Semantics do matter in these cases. I reckon choice PC had was players offered or zilch. In PC shoes I would say yes. Especially if I already dialled the organisational structures, and way of operating. I also do agree with the sums involved, that a separate team of staff within clubs should be involved in buying players. McClaren signed up for this way when joining. Sam used his experience to get us some great quality loans. We have totally given up on loans now.....yet they offer the chance to acquire players we could not get permanently. I wonder, just wonder, if the transfer team decided to not go for loans......or did Mel decide loans were not going to be used by us. Our team is crying out for new blood, experience or youthful dazzling skill from a Premier League team. He requested 2 (?) players by name in January, Blackman being 1 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 32 minutes ago, rynny said: He requested 2 (?) players by name in January, Blackman being 1 of them. I stand corrected if he did. Did he choose Bradley? Ask for Bradley? Or was he given the question of "would you like us to sign him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, igorlegend said: I stand corrected if he did. Did he choose Bradley? Ask for Bradley? Or was he given the question of "would you like us to sign him" Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKRam Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 55 minutes ago, rynny said: He requested 2 (?) players by name in January, Blackman being 1 of them. As I said on another thread, PC did have the final say -- as "final" as Brendan Rodgers on the signing of Mario Balotelli. I am also sure he did ask for Blackman, but likely that's after he was being told that players like Afobe and McCormack were out of the question and after studying the list of mediocre wingers handed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, HKRam said: As I said on another thread, PC did have the final say -- as "final" as Brendan Rodgers on the signing of Mario Balotelli. I am also sure he did ask for Blackman, but likely that's after he was being told that players like Afobe and McCormack were out of the question and after studying the list of mediocre wingers handed to him. That has been the case since McClaren has been in charge, so why would it be any different when PC took over? It is just as likely that he looked at the top scorers list saw Blackman and thought "Oooh I know him, quick Mel sign him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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