Di Canio new Sunderland Manager

[Day]

Thats called "freedom of speech".

Behave, we don't allow any of that on here, now go sit in the corner and think about what you've just said.

[Derbiean]

Behave, we don't allow any of that on here, now go sit in the corner and think about what you've just said.

Yes master

[Guest]

It's not just his political views though - fascism is about more than politics. The position needs clarifying because if Di Canio does not let his personal views affect his job, he's a rubbish fascist. Which would be fine, I suppose. But this is very dodgy territory.

 

No Sunderland fan has ever fought in a war against UKIP or George Bush voters. But there are plenty of families at the Stadium of Light who can still remember losing someone in the Second World War, where Fascism was the enemy.

 

Fascism does not necessarily equate to racism, but fascism hardly flies the flag to tolerance, equality and respect. Fascism is everything Kick it Out is not. One of the things I thought we wanted to "Kick Out" is far-right extremism....even UKIP are miles away from that.

 

I don't want to kick anyone out of anything for having their own personal beliefs.

 

If controversial beliefs are aired in public (as opposed to having the media try and beat them out of people) then maybe that is a different matter, even though this goes against everyone's right to freedom of speech.

 

If you think that Di Canio should not be allowed to manage Sunderland because of what people have done nearly 70 years ago then would you also agree that we should not allow German players in the English leagues?

[Duracell]

I don't want to kick anyone out of anything for having their own personal beliefs.

 

If controversial beliefs are aired in public (as opposed to having the media try and beat them out of people) then maybe that is a different matter, even though this goes against everyone's right to freedom of speech.

 

If you think that Di Canio should not be allowed to manage Sunderland because of what people have done nearly 70 years ago then would you also agree that we should not allow German players in the English leagues?

If those Germans was Nazis, then yes, I wouldn't want them playing! The ideology is the issue, not the ethnicity. What Germany and the Fascist Italians did in the war was to do with their beliefs, not the fact they were from Germany and Italy, so I'm not sure what point that comparison makes.

 

But now Di Canio has come out and said he is not a fascist, then that is fine. What he believes in his head is then his business. But you can't claim to be a fascist (which, to be fair, he only ever did once) and then just keep those thoughts to yourself, because that's a contradiction, unless he doesn't understand Fascism properly.

[Day]

He'll be sacked by Xmas anyhow, don't know what all the fuss is about

[Alph]

He's got loads of work to do.

Hi Paulo my name is Lee Cattermole. I'm club captain. This here is Titus Bramble a veteran CB. This is Danny Graham he's brought in because Sessegnon doesn't score enough. Here is James McClean, he thinks he's awesome so don't drop him unless you want a big fall out. Now here we have John O'Shea who just wants to go back to Man United to be honest.

We don't play hoofball. We don't play possession football. We just react to whatever the other team does and hope the let us score.

So, where do we start?

[froggg]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22033080

 

nugget

[Derbiean]

Does he have an opinion on everything??

[Duracell]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/06/paolo-di-canio-david-james

 

This is very relevant.

 

You can't be a fascist and not let it affect your personality. Di Canio will do or say something to upset a lot of people during his time at Swindon.

[Duracell]

Just because he says he is fascist does not necessarily mean he is a far-right fascist that the media is now portraying him as. And that in itself is a problem.

I'd say a good few managers could be considered fascist in their approach to club management, and Paulo has had success up to now, even if he had the finances to do it at Swindon. This whole thing is a storm in a teacup made to sell papers.

The man has a tattoo of Benito Mussolini, Alex. He's saluted the Lazio fans more than once. He attended the funeral of a far-right extremists linked to terrorist attacks...make no mistake about it, this man is a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work and his political views reflect that. If we have a fit and proper persons test for club owners, the same should happen for managers, and he would fail.

 

He's only distancing himself from fascism because it suits him professionally, but it will take more than a half-baked denial after days of questioning just to get the media off his back to convince me he's fit to manage a football team.

 

You can't be a fascist and be anything other than far-right. To be honest, I'm actually glad the media is bothered about this.

 

He had success at Swindon due to having more money than anyone else and more contacts than other League 2 managers. Both those advantages will now go. Short-term or maybe even mid-term, he may work wonders, like Roy Keane did. It won't last.

[DCFCfranco]

I think under di Canio Sunderland will be very strong on the right wing.

[Derbiean]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/apr/06/paolo-di-canio-david-james

 

This is very relevant.

 

You can't be a fascist and not let it affect your personality. Di Canio will do or say something to upset a lot of people during his time at Swindon.

Unfortunately the article just emphasises the opinion that Di Canio is not likable and is authoritarian in his management approach, neither is illegal, the saluting was irresponsible but again not illegal (as far i know) so all this media frenzy is centered on Di Canio being unlikable...last time i checked we are supposed to be a free country and all Di Canio is doing right now is taking on a new managerial role, so until he does something to actually deserve all of this attention i would suggest people stop turning this into a political witch hunt. 

[Duracell]

Unfortunately the article just emphasises the opinion that Di Canio is not likable and is authoritarian in his management approach, neither is illegal, the saluting was irresponsible but again not illegal (as far i know) so all this media frenzy is centered on Di Canio being unlikable...last time i checked we are supposed to be a free country and all Di Canio is doing right now is taking on a new managerial role, so until he does something to actually deserve all of this attention i would suggest people stop turning this into a political witch hunt. 

No one, me included, has ever said this is illegal! Those who say Clough shouldn't have been appointed in the first place aren't saying his appointment was illegal either. Of course it's a free country. I'm exercising my right to have an opinion on the matter. My opinion is that this appointment is dangerous and irresponsible due to his political views which will affect his role, no doubt about it (his authoritarian rule, which is perilously close to overstepping the mark and will do one day in my opinion) is a good example of this. Di Canio's views aren't illegal and nor should they be. 

[Derbiean]

No one, me included, has ever said this is illegal! Those who say Clough shouldn't have been appointed in the first place aren't saying his appointment was illegal either. Of course it's a free country. I'm exercising my right to have an opinion on the matter. My opinion is that this appointment is dangerous and irresponsible due to his political views which will affect his role, no doubt about it (his authoritarian rule, which is perilously close to overstepping the mark and will do one day in my opinion) is a good example of this. Di Canio's views aren't illegal and nor should they be. 

As am i but its funny when people who use "i have the right to an opinion" rhetoric use it whenever their opinions get challenged and they get defensive as they can't back it up. Di Canio has recently stated he does not support fascism, now unless you got evidence that he is in fact lying i fail to see how his appointment is dangerous and irresponsible...the only irresponsible behaviour i have seen so far over this appointment is from the media as they've blown it up so much its beyond a joke,

[Duracell]

As am i but its funny when people who use "i have the right to an opinion" rhetoric use it whenever their opinions get challenged and they get defensive as they can't back it up. Di Canio has recently stated he does not support fascism, now unless you got evidence that he is in fact lying i fail to see how his appointment is dangerous and irresponsible...the only irresponsible behaviour i have seen so far over this appointment is from the media as they've blown it up so much its beyond a joke,

He has a tattoo of Benito Mussolini. He attended the funeral of a fascist terrorist who had killed 85 people. He's given fascist salutes and has stated he is a fascist. He's only said he hasn't after days of questioning from the media, bit of a coincidence that he's suddenly not a fascist anymore isn't it? What more evidence can you give? I'm saying I have a right to voice an opinion because, as you say, it's a free country. Di Canio is a public figure now and needs to be accountable as a role model.

 

There's a misunderstanding here. If you voted UKIP, that's nothing that should affect the way you are as a leader. In fact, you could be very right wing and still, for me, you would be fit to run a football team. But if you read up about fascism, you will realise why it's such a problem for a public figure and the can of worms it opens.

 

There's nothing irresponsible about getting Di Canio to clarify his views and to find out about his past. I don't think you're fully grasping the issue with fascism here.

[Derbiean]

He has a tattoo of Benito Mussolini. He attended the funeral of a fascist terrorist who had killed 85 people. He's given fascist salutes and has stated he is a fascist. He's only said he hasn't after days of questioning from the media, bit of a coincidence that he's suddenly not a fascist anymore isn't it? What more evidence can you give? I'm saying I have a right to voice an opinion because, as you say, it's a free country. Di Canio is a public figure now and needs to be accountable as a role model.

 

There's a misunderstanding here. If you voted UKIP, that's nothing that should affect the way you are as a leader. In fact, you could be very right wing and still, for me, you would be fit to run a football team. But if you read up about fascism, you will realise why it's such a problem for a public figure and the can of worms it opens.

 

There's nothing irresponsible about getting Di Canio to clarify his views and to find out about his past. I don't think you're fully grasping the issue with fascism here.

So when he stated he was fascist 8 years ago you'll take that as a fact but refuse to accept when 8 years later he states he is not a fascist you refuse to believe him? You dismiss the possibility he might have changed over those 8 years? The reason he's had to answer recently was because it is NOW he is facing demands to answer, where were these questions when he was Swindon manager? So no its not a coincidence he's answered now, its to be expected really.

 

The guy you referring to was initially convicted of the offence in question but was cleared on appeal, so in fact describing him as a 'fascist terrorist' isn't accurate and its not clear to me why Di Canio attended his funeral and also visited this guy...maybe he was supportive of somebody who was accused of  (and cleared of) committing a heinous crime?

 

Nice attempt at insulting me by trying to claim i don't understand the issue with fascism...but lets stick to the facts here. First of all there is no definitive, concrete definition of "fascism" its a vague philosophical concept,;

 

Fascism is commonly described as "extreme right"^[31][32] although some writers have found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.^{[33][34][35][36][37]} Fascism was influenced by both left and right, conservative and anti-conservative, national and supranational, rational and anti-rational.^[35] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.^[36][37] Fascism was founded during World War I by Italian national syndicalists who combined left-wing and right-wing political views.

 

So describing it as far right, extreme right, isn't correct as it takes its influences from different spectrums...now its entirely possible for somebody to simply adopt a narrow, far right position....but there's no evidence that Di Canio has (the salutes, whilst irresponsible in the context of where they were used, on their own, is a long way from proving he's on the far right of anything).

 

And again, unless Di Canio has done something illegal in his private life/past, its none of your business or anyone else's what his views are or what his life is about...the principle in this country is (or supposed to be) innocent until proven guilty and NOT guilty until proven innocent due to personal dislike. The fact he is a public figure does not dissolve his right to privacy.

 

The tattoo of Mussolini, i don't think somebody should have one of him but bearing in mind that Di Canio believes that he was simply misunderstood (in what context i don't know, haven't read his autobiography) shows his support of him (again not something i think is a good idea but each to their own) but that doesn't prove he's a fascist...he could well be supporting him in another context.

[Duracell]

So when he stated he was fascist 8 years ago you'll take that as a fact but refuse to accept when 8 years later he states he is not a fascist you refuse to believe him? You dismiss the possibility he might have changed over those 8 years? The reason he's had to answer recently was because it is NOW he is facing demands to answer, where were these questions when he was Swindon manager? So no its not a coincidence he's answered now, its to be expected really.

 

The guy you referring to was initially convicted of the offence in question but was cleared on appeal, so in fact describing him as a 'fascist terrorist' isn't accurate and its not clear to me why Di Canio attended his funeral and also visited this guy...maybe he was supportive of somebody who was accused of  (and cleared of) committing a heinous crime?

 

Nice attempt at insulting me by trying to claim i don't understand the issue with fascism...but lets stick to the facts here. First of all there is no definitive, concrete definition of "fascism" its a vague philosophical concept,;

 

Fascism is commonly described as "extreme right"^[31][32] although some writers have found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.^{[33][34][35][36][37]} Fascism was influenced by both left and right, conservative and anti-conservative, national and supranational, rational and anti-rational.^[35] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.^[36][37] Fascism was founded during World War I by Italian national syndicalists who combined left-wing and right-wing political views.

 

So describing it as far right, extreme right, isn't correct as it takes its influences from different spectrums...now its entirely possible for somebody to simply adopt a narrow, far right position....but there's no evidence that Di Canio has (the salutes, whilst irresponsible in the context of where they were used, on their own, is a long way from proving he's on the far right of anything).

 

And again, unless Di Canio has done something illegal in his private life/past, its none of your business or anyone else's what his views are or what his life is about...the principle in this country is (or supposed to be) innocent until proven guilty and NOT guilty until proven innocent due to personal dislike. The fact he is a public figure does not dissolve his right to privacy.

 

The tattoo of Mussolini, i don't think somebody should have one of him but bearing in mind that Di Canio believes that he was simply misunderstood (in what context i don't know, haven't read his autobiography) shows his support of him (again not something i think is a good idea but each to their own) but that doesn't prove he's a fascist...he could well be supporting him in another context.

I think I'm making some sloppy posts here because it's leading to some misunderstanding, I'll drop you a PM.

[eddie]

The fact that he has a tattoo of Mussolini says everything I need to know about being misunderstood. I guess it's Di Canio's "We were only playing leapfrog" moment.

[ladyram]

I agree with Eddie.

He must be in Mussolini's fan club in the first place to ever contemplate getting the tattoo because that's not a decision you go into lightly. It's not a picture of a pretty eagle, it's a symbol.

And I doubt he's thought about getting it removed. It's there for a reason.

[Alex W]

The man has a tattoo of Benito Mussolini, Alex. He's saluted the Lazio fans more than once. He attended the funeral of a far-right extremists linked to terrorist attacks...make no mistake about it, this man is a thoroughly unpleasant piece of work and his political views reflect that. If we have a fit and proper persons test for club owners, the same should happen for managers, and he would fail.

 

He's only distancing himself from fascism because it suits him professionally, but it will take more than a half-baked denial after days of questioning just to get the media off his back to convince me he's fit to manage a football team.

 

You can't be a fascist and be anything other than far-right. To be honest, I'm actually glad the media is bothered about this.

 

He had success at Swindon due to having more money than anyone else and more contacts than other League 2 managers. Both those advantages will now go. Short-term or maybe even mid-term, he may work wonders, like Roy Keane did. It won't last.

You can be fascist without being absolutely far-right to the degree that we presume fascists are. The culture in Italy is different regarding this, it is hard to understand over here but it's true. You are still of course placed on the right of the political spectrum, but not all fascists are so to the same level of intensity etc.

I personally would like to hear his views, not because I would agree with them, but I am curious as to what he thinks. He champions fair-play, he is not racist or that much would be clear, and though he has some very dodgy history he is from and was raised in a very far-right area, that does not necessarily make him a monster.

I would like to ask him what he was doing at that funeral, which is the one part of all this that concerns me most, and what his exact views on Mussolini are. He has said before that he was misunderstood, I'd like to know what he meant by that.

The point I'm trying to make is that if this was such a big thing for the media and the wider world, it should have began at Swindon, not now at Sunderland. If people truly were as horrified by this, it should have made the papers then, as the size of the club should be irrelevant to how terrible his actions are, yes? The size of the club should be irrelevant if he one thing the media and wider world is concerned about is who we let manage a professional football club. As it is, they waited till he joined Sunderland to do this. The BBC showed him chatting candidly to a reporter about his managerial future and thoughts on the game not too long ago and not one mention was made during this entire interview to his political thoughts or allegiances.

Now that he has joined Sunderland, they have decided only now to ask these questions and write these stories. This is a media whirlwind designed to sell stories, though I'm sure many of the people being caught up in it are genuine in their dislike of what they will now presume as an openly fascist manager.