Alph

You got me. I'll try to care less. 🤣 There's is no nuanced discussion until Palestinians are considered equal to Israelis. Until Islamophobia is as criminal as Antisemitism. Until the IDF are held to the same standards as Hamas. Until we stop claiming "democracy" has some moral high ground when Israel isn't a democracy for all its population. Until we examine the things said by the Israeli government that definitely have genocidal tones. Until we can hear what all experts are actually saying instead of discrediting the ones we don't want to hear. Even if their point is valid. Whether it be Pappe or Gideon Levy. Historian or journalist. Your condescending tone annoyed me. Your support of American foreign policy. The most destabilising nation in my opinion. From WMD lies, Gulf Of Tonkin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki... Their world policing has an ulterior motive. There's plenty of experts who will say worse about them. I'm totally comfortable with you ignoring me or whatever you said. So add not mentioning me to that if you want Oh and your article. "The state of Palestine wouldn't be the utopia... Would give terrorists more freedom. " that was offensive. Palestinians have a right to national security. You're dismissive of all ME politics. It's The West way for you. And you'll justify it however it's enforced

I mean what am I supposed to do with this? Talk about the Hannibal Directive? Post videos from witnesses that say IDF open fire on their own people? Post videos of IDF shooting unarmed people? It's not productive. It's not relevant. I'm not here defending Hamas. I just said that Israel won't get rid of them and that it's more likely they'll gain more support. That's just the truth.

Stop. This logic applied all over the world would break down all borders and national security. It's nonsense. It really is nonsense. You're going down a route in which nations can reclaim colonies? You know you're talking about people who have no part in fighting? People living in these areas, raising families, working... Just normal people? Like you, your son, daughter, Mum, Dad, Aunties, Uncles... Nothing to do with any dispute. Who lose their homes and loved ones. Are displaced. And your saying well technically 2,000 years ago.... Get real. Get out with that Zionist nonsense. Talking about that Amalek next with Netenyahu. I don't give a feck who "owns" Jerusalem. My agenda is peace and equality for Palestinians. You think I'm suggesting Jews don't have a right to exist there? No. But you seem to be saying that all the Palestinians (not Hamas, not militant, not combatant) that get their homes taken from them is fine because it's disputed land. So feck what the UN, ICJ, Human Rights, Amnesty Int all say. You've got the bible and a Map from 2,000 years ago. You know not even a great many Israelis think like this don't you? You do know that? Like there's a left wing in Israel politics that argues against this exact sort of mentality? You talk about wanting peace but it's this exact sort of thing that creates more death. It's this Zionist s**** and Arabs who say every single part of Israel was given to Jews by the British when it wasn't there's to give. If you look at Hamas actual goals it's the destruction of Israel. But not the expulsion of all Jews. They say Jews of that land can stay but all others must go. Now this is a ridiculous goal and would lead to Genocide. Finding peace is about rejecting the extremes of both sides and respecting the borders and treaties we have. We need a state where Arab Muslims and Jews have equal rights (no, that's not the current Israel) or we draw a line and tell Israel to feck off with their claims. If the ICJ say 80% of your wall or whatever is illegal. It's illegal. If the UN draw up resolutions then you respect them. Show up to hearings. Don't veto peace. And we work towards a 2 state solution. Have you seen the Hamas flags flying in West Bank over the weekend? That's what Israel have achieved since October 7th. They. Can't. Wipe. Hamas. Out. Like. This.

Only just saw the Taylor fight. Jesus, I'm not against women's boxing but there's something about brutal scraps like that where I feel a bit squeamish. Weird. But whatever they got paid it should be more. What a brawl Taylor is great. Really likable, hard as nails and just great for boxing.

Anyone here buying the Israel friendship song 2023? It's in this video if you'd like the music video "In a year we will annihilate everyone " la la la la. Sing along guys.

That's the "peace corridor" speech. Where he said Iran needs to face a nuclear threat, Palestine doesn't exist and they share a border with the good Muslims.

Gutted.

True. Which is a starting point of a us finding common ground. There always needs to be balance. But there never is. Israel is always playing the victim. Always protected. Nobody here is completely blind to Israeli/Jew suffering.

Bore off with strawman arguments. Hamas lead state... Oh, if it's not experts your respected circles or the language used by Israeli officials when they talk about there being "NO innocent Palestinians" is not genocidal or Hitler level for you then that's enough. End of. Feck the experts that argue differently in Haaretz columns. Until they get the respect of you or your peers then they have no validity. These Arabs just won't accept our values. We've bombed them, invaded them, stolen from them... but they just won't accept our democracy. All they have to do is look at Israel and see the black Jews, the Arab citizens etc. They'll see the equal rights. But no. They live in their caves plotting ways to destroy the west when all we ever do is help them export their natural resources. If only they'd look at how we helped Africa. Bloody crying about "land grab". It's only land. Disputed land. And we'll remove that gas for them too. All part of our democracy service. Fed up of Amnesty, Human Rights, ICJ, UN etc keep criticising. Antisemitic organisations. They have no LeedsRam verified experts, that's their problem

See, you can see from your post history in this thread and in the Ukraine thread referencing Trump/Afghanistan to get a good idea of what you think is an acceptable treatment of those Arab Muslim nations. Never once have I seen you speak on behalf of them. You'll justify drone strikes in Afghanistan, war in Iraq, you said (ref Israel) "the land grab is a problem"..... You discredit Finklestein, Pappe... I'm guessing Haaretz journalists are clueless, Raz Segal and any other expert or opinion you don't like. You say Palestine would probably be a terrorist breeding ground and Iran would probably be... Israel is not equal to all its citizens but it's a democracy so therefore it's much better than Jordan and whatever it does you can't possibly condemn. Hamas aren't smart at all. See, despite my bias I've never wavered from my position on Hamas. I've called them out exactly for what they are. But you managed "land grab".... It's terrorism. It's terrorism on Palestinians. We're looking at up to 15,000 dead. Babies dying because theres no power. Lack of evidence and terrible fake propaganda attempts to cover their tracks. Have you been oblivious to the things they actually say in that government? Really? It's Hitler level I can say Israel has a right to defend itself. When it's actually defending. You could never say that about Palestinians. You could never imagine an Israel so aggressive that a group like Hamas should grow in numbers because Palestinians would rather die on the spot than be displaced. You've been outed. Go sit with Genocide Joe and tell him there's $500b pot of gold for the winner. Let's pretend he doesn't know and America aren't the most destabilising country on the globe.

This is the guy that said something along the lines of a free state of Palestine wouldn't be the utopia many imagine and would give terrorists more room to operate. That's what he thinks of Palestinians. And it's beautifully ironic that the democratic state of Israel (which isn't so democratic if your not the right type of citizen) is a state that breaches international law, murders Palestinians taking their homes, refuses to sign off on human rights laws/Rome Statute, ignores the International Criminal Court demands, doesn't show up to UN hearings on their military operations, holds Palestinians prisoners without charge.... The Arabs should just stop moaning and accept it's for the best. They're so uncivilised.

You pick and choose the experts I've noticed.

And I posted a link which explains clearly why their democracy has several flaws in what makes a democracy. You don't think Hamas are smart? You think they live in caves shooting AK's at the ceiling shouting "death to the west" Israel are smart though? Hence some of the most hilariously bad propaganda and blatant genocidal talk to go along with their decision to give up so much military advantage to go into urban combat. You said @Comrade 86was confusing a wartime response with whether a state is democratic or not. Is it possible October 7th was a response To the 150 dead Palestinians up to July? Did you know about those? How many children died in Palestine before October 7th? Do you know? Stop watching Hollywood films if you actually believe terrorists are just mindless murderers.(unless sponsored by America obvs) Hamas share a lot in common with the very smart and presentable Netenyahu. Amalekite? Sorry I meant, am I right?

It's ok. He's in good company. President Isaac Herzog stated: “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, it’s absolutely not true. They could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime.” “We will eliminate everything — they will regret it,” said Defense Minister Yoav Gallant. “our focus is on (creating) damage, not on precision. There is one and only (one) solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima, without nuclear weapons.” Moshe Feiglin, a former prominent Likud Knesset member. Former Justice Minister Gideon Sa’ar stated that the Gaza Strip “must be smaller at the end of the war … Whoever starts a war against Israel must lose territory.” Nissim Vaturi, the deputy Knesset speaker, threatened: “Nakba? Expel them all. If the Egyptians care so much for them — they are welcome to have them wrapped in cellophane tied with a green ribbon.” There's more about Amalek and the benefits of Cholera and typhoid rife in Gaza. Obviously Sky News etc has exposed these right wing lunatics in the "Israel-Hamas War" coverage.

What's Itamar Ben-Gvar saying? https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ahead-of-slated-palestinian-prisoner-release-ben-gvir-tells-police-to-shut-down-celebrations/

Shameless violently ruthless cowardly terrorist.... you're describing IDF? I have an open invite to West Bank that I've not taken up. You can be my +1 and tell the Palestinians there how brave, courageous and noble the law abiding IDF are. I'm suggesting Hamas are smart. Not good. Being the most liberal democratic state is not a free pass to do whatever they like to other people. Including the Muslim Arabs in Israel that are not equal. And the African Jews. https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/israel-is-a-democracy/

Just a happy coincidence then. Lucky Hamas. I did say they don't care about Palestinian lives didn't I. Not like Israel. The liberal democratic state and great hope of the middle east

I saw someone say "What have Hamas actually achieved. They're getting bombed and now want to release hostages and talk peace" I think Hamas would declare this war a win if it ended today. They've achieved everything they set out to do and Israel have achieved nothing. Israel made commitments. How do they pull out now? Hamas will toy with them. They'll drip feed them hostages. I'd bet money on it. Their objective was to expose Israeli crimes and aggression, expose Western hypocrisy and damage Israeli relations with Saudi Arabia and UAE. Why would they stop? Because innocent Palestinians are dying? Those are Martyrs. It's about the greater cause. Hezbollah and Hamas have never been given such... not support but acceptance(?).... by the world to hurt Israel. They don't need people going to their online merch store for the 2023 edition of "I ❤️ Hamas". They just need the truth about Israel out in the world and some moral ambiguity. Neither side can stop yet. But while we have Qatar (where Hamas head office is) preaching for peace we also have David Cameron sucking off Netenyahu. So the poor poor innocent Palestinians will continue to lose everything. As always. @Comrade 86is spot on. The Palestinians suffering deserves sympathy. Real sympathy. Not empty words from people who encourage this s***

Yeah I needed a wink emoji there. 🤣 Saudi Arabia will join them soon too. India, China, Saudi Arabia... I want their summit to discuss Human Rights to be televised.

It might make a difference if countries actually called for a permanent ceasefire. Didn't abstain from voting and talked with the same language they used when talking about Russia/Ukraine Vanessa Feltz did one hell of a job on one of her "guests" and that's a good example of my point. Palestinians and the Arab world are watching. They're not oblivious to politics. It matters what language is used and what countries vote for. She went on to cut her guest off when he a) disagreed with her belief that Palestinians don't care what Britain's stance is b) said that nobody in Israel uses genocidal language to which there's overwhelming evidence that they do. But that's besides the point. It all matters very much imo. It certainly matters to Russia, China, South Africa, Iran etc who are taking advantage of the PR opportunity. BRICS... The voice of peace, freedom and democracy while The West can't even say "ceasefire". That's their play

More that Britain was always open about pushing for "pauses" and not "ceasefire". So just in the way that this is what Britain supported. And I imagine Sunak and Co, if they haven't already, will be offering their full backing for this pause. But only the "pause". But I didn't mean my comment to be an attack or dig at Britain. I kind of throw British politicians with Americans on this since they just echo everything that comes out of Washington.

I'll give no credit to Biden until I take my last breath. Anything he does for Palestinians now is to protect himself and alleviate the pressure. To appear neutral. Their vetos and refusing to sign off on International laws I think speak for their intentions. I bet the war fund doesn't stop Iran of course will want peace about as much as the Americans. Or if they do want peace it will be to promote BRICS and it will come with a propaganda campaign to show Russia etc as restoring peace and finding common ground where America and The EU failed. Either way they're in it for themselves as much as America. America and Britain are just saving face here. They jumped in with both feet and Hamas played it perfectly. They still are. As for Netenyahu... There's enough out there online to show what he thinks of Gaza and Palestinians. He's said the war will continue. Again, just saving face. Hamas, well it's just another perfect play. They killed 1,200 Israelis and kidnapped 200. Then managed to get the world talking about Palestinian suffering. There's more moral ambiguity around Hamas than ever. Which is not useful for peace. I know I go on a lot about terrible Israeli propaganda but Hamas has been peddling there's out too. But they're actually good at it. We don't want too much legitimacy given to them. This temporary ceasefire is just a PR stunt to all parties imo. But if it saves lives then that's the main thing. On both sides. Realistically though, does anyone actually believe this will lead to something bigger? Too many factions. Too much money at stake. And I mean all sides. Putin has strapped on his big boy boots to "help" find peace. "BRICS can play key role in Middle East crisis"..... sure.

Agreed. It will be a nervous four days though. With the IDF vulnerable in Gaza City and what's been going on in West Bank it's going to be easier to break a ceasefire than to hold it. You would never know which side would break it as they'd both blame each other. No such agreements with other groups either being reported so will that fighting continue? I think something like 93% of Gaza doesn't have access to clean drinking water. Cholera and Typhoid are a bigger threat than bombs now!