Asanovic Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 First off 76 minutes plus is the last 15 minutes so it still stands.. It only becomes an irrelevant fact if we're winning when the clock clicks at 76 minutes.. But how many games have we approached 76 minutes with us either drawing or losing.. It's the majority, and that my friends is a fact.. So we have needed to score in this period to achieve maximum points in the majority of our games.. You go on about not losing out on any points.. You only get 1 point for a draw.. So far this season we've lost it against Peterborough, drawn the rest.. We've yet to pick up a late win, the last time you'll find one of those is in 2009. I said if you calculate all the points teams have over this period (76 minutes plus) and calculate as 3 points (getting a late winner) 1 point (finishing a draw) and 0 points (losing) we'd be in the bottom 3.. Well, we are. Our last 15 minute record is actually pulling us back, it's giving us a major disadvantage and we're losing ponts from it.. So how does this become irrelevant? I'm absolutely p*ssing myself in the office. Can you be any more pedantic! It's like you're glad it wasn't scored in the 76th minute. Do you know we won last night? With regard to the second point, football is played over 90 minutes, not 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just to say again.. Since March 3rd 2011 our home record is as follows Won 11 Draw 4 Lost 8 So we've needed to score in the 76th minute+ in 12 of our 23 home games since March 3rd 2011.. Over 50% And we haven't.. Does this fact now become relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 23 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Just to say again.. Since March 3rd 2011 our home record is as follows Won 11 Draw 4 Lost 8 So we've needed to score in the 76th minute+ in 12 of our 23 home games since March 3rd 2011.. Over 50% And we haven't.. Does this fact now become relevant? Nope. We haven't scored a first half league goal since New Years Eve either. Surely that's more of a concern. Like Asanovic says, it's a 90 minute game. Frankly, I sure hope we score a goal in the last 15 minutes on Saturday so we can all stop this silly argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Nope. We haven't scored a first half league goal since New Years Eve either. Surely that's more of a concern. Like Asanovic says, it's a 90 minute game. Frankly, I sure hope we score a goal in the last 15 minutes on Saturday so we can all stop this silly argument. More of a concern? Hardly.. You can not score in the first half in every game and still come out with maximum points.. In fact Reading have one of the fewest first half scoring records in the league.. They aren't doing too bad. We on the other hand have gone over a year without scoring in the last 15 minutes and in over 50% of the games we've needed to do so to get maximum points.. If you aren't winning at HT, you can still win at FT.. If you don't score in the fist half, you can score 10 in the second and it wouldn't matter. But, last 15 minutes is when you NEED TO, if you don't then you don't get maximum points..It's impossible. It's really that simple, the last 15 minutes is the only period in the game where the scoreline CAN NOT be altered once it's over. Amazing how people don't get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 To be honest, we scored in the 75th minute yesterday, when we needed to. That's enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 To be honest, we scored in the 75th minute yesterday, when we needed to. That's enough for me. What about the other 50% of the matches? Were they enough for you? Yesterdays win was excellent, I didn't expect that. I'm done for today.. Take it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 What about the other 50% of the matches? Were they enough for you? Yesterdays win was excellent, I didn't expect that. I'm done for today.. Take it easy. We won, I'm rejoicing in it. I'm aware of our shortcomings as a team, but sometimes it's not totally necessary to bark on after we scored in the 75th minute. The team can't undo the fact they haven't scored this late in a game for a year (I'm making it sound like we haven't won for a year), so why not just be glad we've broken it and move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 23 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 More of a concern? Hardly.. You can not score in the first half in every game and still come out with maximum points.. In fact Reading have one of the fewest first half scoring records in the league.. They aren't doing too bad. We on the other hand have gone over a year without scoring in the last 15 minutes and in over 50% of the games we've needed to do so to get maximum points.. If you aren't winning at HT, you can still win at FT.. If you don't score in the fist half, you can score 10 in the second and it wouldn't matter. But, last 15 minutes is when you NEED TO, if you don't then you don't get maximum points..It's impossible. It's really that simple, the last 15 minutes is the only period in the game where the scoreline CAN NOT be altered once it's over. Amazing how people don't get this. No, I get it, and many others do, it's just most people don't see it as a big problem. And frankly, the way you treat anyone with a contrary opinion, as if your opinion is so much more superior, is rather tiresome. You say that if you're not winning at HT, you can still win at FT. But if you're winning at 75 minutes, you can still win at 90. I don't advocate shutting up shop with 15 minutes to go, but it doesn't mean the team are not trying to score another goal. And if you're 2 or 3-0 up, you don't need to score in the last 15 minutes. If we're 2-0 up against Watford and scored a third in the 85th minute, will that count as a goal in the last 15 minutes, or would it not count because we didn't 'need' to score it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 and by the same token, if we're more than a goal down, as we were against both Hull and Cardiff, even if we score in the last 15 it wont make diddy squat of a difference. Hull scored their second in the 23rd minute and Cardiff finished the scoring on 73, the negative feckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 this link shows a more interesting stat to me. If we're so bloody negative, how come we keep turning things around? http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/ptsgain.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/drawht.html second one should really put the last 15 minute myth to bed. I fear not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch 23 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 this link shows a more interesting stat to me. If we're so bloody negative, how come we keep turning things around? [url=http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/ptsgain.html]http://stats.footbal...D1/ptsgain.html That's an interesting link actually. I think last season, we only gained seven points from losing positions. Against Boro, Coventry and Leeds. We've doubled that, with 12 games still to play. So what if we don't score too many after the 75th minute, our resolve and determination has come on in leaps and bounds this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/drawht.html second one should really put the last 15 minute myth to bed. I fear not. I think you are missing his point, which is becoming tedious I must admit. He is talking about the last part of the game, where we have not been able to turn one game around either from a winning or drawing position, this could be either down to negative tactics or lack of fitness, to me it's actually not been able to have the players that are able to change the game being on the bench. The problem is that he is like the bloke who sits a couple of rows behind us in east stand upper, who constantly refers to Carroll as a ball boy, He may have a point but it becomes boring after the first couple of references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 No, I get it, and many others do, it's just most people don't see it as a big problem. And frankly, the way you treat anyone with a contrary opinion, as if your opinion is so much more superior, is rather tiresome. You say that if you're not winning at HT, you can still win at FT. But if you're winning at 75 minutes, you can still win at 90. I don't advocate shutting up shop with 15 minutes to go, but it doesn't mean the team are not trying to score another goal. And if you're 2 or 3-0 up, you don't need to score in the last 15 minutes. If we're 2-0 up against Watford and scored a third in the 85th minute, will that count as a goal in the last 15 minutes, or would it not count because we didn't 'need' to score it? Again you've completely missed the point.. Scoring a goal from only a losing/drawing position is where the 'extra' points come from. And if you're 2-0 with 10 minutes to go, one goal can lead to another and a 'salvaged point'.. Something that has happened under previous managers but not Clough. Why? PBW you're arguing against something I have no problems about.. It's a different matter altogether. I'm not harping on about anything, this is only my 2nd thread on this subject.. I just feel like repeating it because people come up with any excuse under the sun to try and put me down or make out it's not important... When it is. I'm sure Clough knows about this 'fact' and I'm damn well hoping he's trying to rectify it because it is a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 When was the last time u watched derby actually at pride park?? Maybe we can set up a anniversary for it then when u do come n watch we will say well u had to fly with such n such a airline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Again you've completely missed the point.. Scoring a goal from only a losing/drawing position is where the 'extra' points come from. And if you're 2-0 with 10 minutes to go, one goal can lead to another and a 'salvaged point'.. Something that has happened under previous managers but not Clough. Why? PBW you're arguing against something I have no problems about.. It's a different matter altogether. I'm not harping on about anything, this is only my 2nd thread on this subject.. I just feel like repeating it because people come up with any excuse under the sun to try and put me down or make out it's not important... When it is. I'm sure Clough knows about this 'fact' and I'm damn well hoping he's trying to rectify it because it is a big problem. Is it? Why exactly is it a problem? I will go along the lines that this thread is utterly ridiculous. We haven't scored in the last 15 minutes. So what. It matters not when we score the goals. All that matters is trying to score one more than the opposition. The table that was posted in an earlier reply sums it up for me. We are in the top 6 when drawing at half time thus proving the "we are negative" debate to bed. What that stat tells me is that Clough is among the most tactically aware managers in the league and Derby are among the most positive sides. What startles me is your timing of this thread. We have just arrested a non winning streak with a great win over one of the most fancied sides in the division and you choose to start bleating on once more about your "not scoring in the last 15 minutes" debate. Really Bris, no one cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sWW Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Surely it doesn't matter when you score the goals. If you were a team that averaged scoring 3 goals a game but never scored in the second half I'd imagine you would still be a pretty good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Surely it doesn't matter when you score the goals. If you were a team that averaged scoring 3 goals a game but never scored in the second half I'd imagine you would still be a pretty good team. Well, yes 'cos we'd be winning most games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sWW Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Does a goal scored in the last 15min count double or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think some of you are being a little harsh on Bris. The stat does show that generally over the last year tactics towards the end of matches have been negative, however, Tuesday was a good indicator that NC is doing something about this. I think to put the stat into context though Bris you should also be telling us how many points we have lost in the last 15 minutes during that year. I did ask you that earlier on in the thread. The fact that you don't want to respond to that does make it look like you only take pleasure out of pointing out negative facts. Please feel free to prove me wrong though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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